Invasive animal species and the first precept

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pilgrim
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Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by pilgrim » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:46 pm

If an invasive species is causing havoc to the natural environment how would you deal with it as a Buddhist? Would you break the precept ? If not, would you side-step the issue and let someone else deal with the problem? Or would you say it's not a problem and let the invasive animal species dominate the environment possibly causing the extinction of local animal species?

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polarbear101
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by polarbear101 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 am

I would encourage the government to look into finding ways of sterilizing the invasive species.

https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ne ... opulations

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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binocular
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by binocular » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 am

polarbear101 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 am
I would encourage the government to look into finding ways of sterilizing the invasive species.

https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ne ... opulations
Do you know if they have found a solution for the invasion of the red/black/brown slug?

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polarbear101
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by polarbear101 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 6:11 pm

binocular wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 am
polarbear101 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 am
I would encourage the government to look into finding ways of sterilizing the invasive species.

https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ne ... opulations
Do you know if they have found a solution for the invasion of the red/black/brown slug?
I do not. I should also add that I am not aware of an invasive species that has been eradicated solely through sterilization. But I imagine if we put enough R&D into it, it could be done.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Kim OHara » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 pm

polarbear101 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 am
I would encourage the government to look into finding ways of sterilizing the invasive species.

https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ne ... opulations

:anjali:
Interesting technique but not intended primarily for pest species -
Popular Science wrote:If this method proves to be similarly effective in other species, it could replace spaying or neutering household pets like cats and dogs. But it could also be helpful to limit the numbers of pest species, such as deer (many of which currently receive hormone-blocking shots every few years) or rodents such as, well, mice.

One day, similar technology may even work to make reliable long-term birth control in humans, according to Science News. But in the more foreseeable future, finding a way to easily reduce the large populations of feral cats or destructive deer might just be enough. As Science notes, “A cheaper, faster method of sterilization is considered a holy grail for animal population control.”
The smaller and more numerous the target species, the less cost-effective the technique becomes.

:namaste:
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Sam Vara
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Sam Vara » Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:56 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 pm

The smaller and more numerous the target species, the less cost-effective the technique becomes.

:namaste:
Kim
A while ago, I read something about using a synthesised sex hormone to disrupt the breeding cycle of an insect pest. No need to chase and vasectomise every critter if we can get them to hump something inappropriate!

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polarbear101
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by polarbear101 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:57 pm

Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 pm
polarbear101 wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:57 am
I would encourage the government to look into finding ways of sterilizing the invasive species.

https://www.biosciencetechnology.com/ne ... opulations

:anjali:
Interesting technique but not intended primarily for pest species -
Popular Science wrote:If this method proves to be similarly effective in other species, it could replace spaying or neutering household pets like cats and dogs. But it could also be helpful to limit the numbers of pest species, such as deer (many of which currently receive hormone-blocking shots every few years) or rodents such as, well, mice.

One day, similar technology may even work to make reliable long-term birth control in humans, according to Science News. But in the more foreseeable future, finding a way to easily reduce the large populations of feral cats or destructive deer might just be enough. As Science notes, “A cheaper, faster method of sterilization is considered a holy grail for animal population control.”
The smaller and more numerous the target species, the less cost-effective the technique becomes.

:namaste:
Kim
Right, there are other sterilization techniques that could be helpful though. The thing I'm thinking of may not be feasible due to the possibility of unwanted mutation, but I imagine it would be possible to create a virus that renders a species infertile. You'd want to make sure that the virus would only and could only attack the target species though, or we might wind up as the last generation on earth. But anyway, like I said, with enough R&D, I imagine we could make sterilization far more viable, utilizing various different techniques.

:anjali:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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Kim OHara
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:04 am

Sam Vara wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:56 pm
Kim OHara wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 9:50 pm

The smaller and more numerous the target species, the less cost-effective the technique becomes.

:namaste:
Kim
A while ago, I read something about using a synthesised sex hormone to disrupt the breeding cycle of an insect pest. No need to chase and vasectomise every critter if we can get them to hump something inappropriate!
This is not that project but is similar in transmission - https://blogs.biomedcentral.com/bugbitt ... t-malaria/.

:coffee:
Kim

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DNS
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by DNS » Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:34 am

Perhaps not considered an invasive species, but some municipalities, including Las Vegas have apparently solved the feral cat problem with sterilization. They trap, neuter, and release. They make a small clip cut on the cat's ears, so that if it gets captured again, they'll know that it is already neutered and then just release it. (I suppose with a male, it would be pretty easy to see a neutered cat, but with a female, you can't tell from a visual look.) No more euthanasia of unwanted cats.
:woohoo:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:10 am

DNS wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 3:34 am
Perhaps not considered an invasive species, ...
Absolutely an invasive species!
http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/pro ... ry/5802204
http://www.australianwildlife.org/field ... earch.aspx

:namaste:
Kim

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Dhammarakkhito
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Dhammarakkhito » Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:20 am

why so eager to break the precepts
killing is wrong objectively
"Just as the ocean has a single taste — that of salt — in the same way, this Dhamma-Vinaya has a single taste: that of release."
— Ud 5.5

Dinsdale
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Dinsdale » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:56 am

pilgrim wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:46 pm
If an invasive species is causing havoc to the natural environment how would you deal with it as a Buddhist? Would you break the precept ? If not, would you side-step the issue and let someone else deal with the problem? Or would you say it's not a problem and let the invasive animal species dominate the environment possibly causing the extinction of local animal species?
We humans are a very invasive species. :tongue:

But seriously, invasive species are usually just better at adapting, and therefore more successful. Instead of meddling in how other species adapt and evolve, we we might do better to reflect on the damage that we are doing to to the natural world.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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binocular
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by binocular » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:04 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:56 am
Instead of meddling in how other species adapt and evolve, we we might do better to reflect on the damage that we are doing to to the natural world.
That is all fine and well, but the invasive species can do a lot of damage as well, to the point of destruction.

Take for example the red/brown/black slug invasion that we have in central Europe (and elsewhere). If the slugs aren't destroyed, they eat up all young plants, and also some small animals. Those invading slugs will eat rainworms alive!

It's a big problem.

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No_Mind
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by No_Mind » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:25 pm

Makes me think of my thread Killing Rats

I had to resort to killing them using my super efficient rat trap. No other way. I tried not to. But no other way. Breaking the First Precept did not come easy but what has to be done, has to be done. If it is any consolation .. I do it without any malice and lot of sadness.

In spite of my belief in Buddhism, I believe I am allowed to defend myself against all enemies and that includes rodents and mosquitoes (only living things I kill).

:namaste:
I know one thing: that I know nothing

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JMGinPDX
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by JMGinPDX » Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:49 pm

Then there's the perspective that the Precept is just a training rule and not a law, and for laypeople at least, one designed to help us remain compassionate and respectful of all living creatures, and to detach from the anger, carelessness and lack of compassion that motivate harm against living creatures.
While there's no escaping the bad kamma that results from intentionally harming a living creature, if the harm is approached with mindfulness and wisdom, and all other options have been sought, sometimes there is simply no other solution, and the effects of the kamma can hopefully be minimized.
As I heard one teacher say "sometimes you just have to decide who is going to live in the house and who isn't."
Right now, it's like this...

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Kim OHara
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Kim OHara » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:15 pm

JMGinPDX wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 5:49 pm
Then there's the perspective that the Precept is just a training rule and not a law, and for laypeople at least, one designed to help us remain compassionate and respectful of all living creatures, and to detach from the anger, carelessness and lack of compassion that motivate harm against living creatures.
While there's no escaping the bad kamma that results from intentionally harming a living creature, if the harm is approached with mindfulness and wisdom, and all other options have been sought, sometimes there is simply no other solution, and the effects of the kamma can hopefully be minimized.
As I heard one teacher say "sometimes you just have to decide who is going to live in the house and who isn't."
:goodpost:

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Nwad
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Re: Invasive animal species and the first precept

Post by Nwad » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:49 am

Technicaly humain being is an invasive species.

Solution to deal with invasive spacies is to introduse a predator to re create harmony before it was broken.

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