Why so few Western Buddhists?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
chownah
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by chownah » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:02 am
chownah wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:24 am
You say "because harmony is valued above everything else" when speaking of eastern culture....I dispute that statement.
If harmony was valued above everything else then there would be no wars in eastern culture.
If harmony was valued above everything else then there would be no quarrels in eastern culture.
If harmony was valued above all else there would be no murders in eastern culture.
If harmoney was valued above all else then people would not amass gold in eastern culture.
If harmoney was valued above all else then it would not need to be enforced in eastern culture.
It's in order to establish harmony that people are executed, wars fought etc. It's because harmony is so important to them that they will kill for it.
Surely you jest. Most wars have been fought over power and wealth....in fact wars are almost exclusivly fought over power and wealth......"give me this piece of land as my control of it is necessary for harmony"..... :jawdrop: :jumping: :rofl:
chownah

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by Crazy cloud » Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:27 pm

Here's is a piece of land that looks quite harmonious ... :tongue:

Image
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

binocular
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by binocular » Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:28 pm

chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 pm
Surely you jest. Most wars have been fought over power and wealth....in fact wars are almost exclusivly fought over power and wealth......"give me this piece of land as my control of it is necessary for harmony".....
Tomayto, tomahto.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

chownah
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by chownah » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:08 am

binocular wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:28 pm
chownah wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:59 pm
Surely you jest. Most wars have been fought over power and wealth....in fact wars are almost exclusivly fought over power and wealth......"give me this piece of land as my control of it is necessary for harmony".....
Tomayto, tomahto.
Are you saying that "harmony" and "power and wealth" are the same thing?...or is this some obscure pali reference?.....or something else...
chownah

binocular
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by binocular » Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:47 pm

Some say wars are fought for power, some say they are fought for harmony. Now what?
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z


binocular
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by binocular » Thu Jan 18, 2018 5:16 pm

A matter of interpretation.
For example, if you're feeling particularly generous, you can conceive of the Nazi'ss reason for going to war as simply a matter of economic and territorial gain.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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manas
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by manas » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:38 am

DNS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:14 pm
I agree with this. In our current time, there is a huge increase in secularization. People might identify as "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Buddhist" but in reality are non-religious, don't attend church/temple services and are basically agnostic and identify with a religion label merely because they were born into it. In the near future "non-religious" might be the number 2 ideology among the list of top 5 world religions.
I think much of our culture is nihilistic / annihilationist also.

:anjali:
Like a merchant with a small
but well-laden caravan
–a dangerous road,

like a person who loves life
–a poison,

one should avoid
–evil deeds.

(Dhammapada 123)


chownah
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by chownah » Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:08 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Jan 18, 2018 4:47 pm
Some say wars are fought for power, some say they are fought for harmony. Now what?
Talk is cheap...if you listen long enough some say just about everything that can be said....doesn't make it right or truthful though. Can you bring a reference where someone discussing fighting a war for harmony?
chownah

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retrofuturist
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:50 pm

Greetings,
manas wrote:
Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:38 am
DNS wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 4:14 pm
I agree with this. In our current time, there is a huge increase in secularization. People might identify as "Christian" or "Jewish" or "Buddhist" but in reality are non-religious, don't attend church/temple services and are basically agnostic and identify with a religion label merely because they were born into it. In the near future "non-religious" might be the number 2 ideology among the list of top 5 world religions.
I think much of our culture is nihilistic / annihilationist also.

:anjali:
I think those two things are closely intertwined...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Eko Care
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by Eko Care » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:59 am

No_Mind wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:33 am
Now I understand why so few Western Buddhists.

I expected participants to share reasons based on their understanding of why so few.

But it turned to an argument!! Dhamma cannot be argued about. Realising the Dhamma is not an intellectual activity. It has to be understood not by the brain but heart.

Debating too much is unhealthy for the mind.
:cry:

form
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by form » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:28 am

Because westerners have the tendency and nuturing to Western religions. When they study buddhism, their western tendencies comes into play also. I am not saying it is totally no good, it can be good in some ways.

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bridif1
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by bridif1 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:00 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm
Why would "liberals" follow a religion since "liberalism" is the opposite of religion? Religion or dharma seeks to maintain or uphold the fabric of society (which centres on family values, the golden rule & charitableness) where as "liberalism" is often narcissistic sensual indulgence. What mostly is the result of "liberal religion" is like Protestant Evangelism, namely, salvation without morality; reincarnation without morality; ideas like when man destroys the earth we will all be reincarnated in other galaxies (to start the destructive narcissism all over again).
Hi DD!

I don't know if anyone said this in the next pages, but I'll say it anyway.

Are you sure that that is a proper definition for "liberalism"?
Are acquainted with concept "classical liberalism"?
Are all liberals the same?

Keep in mind that classical liberalism proposed "freedom, equality and fraternity" as it maxims.
Fraternity and equality (both in rights and duties) is not narcissism without morality.

It is the same issue as with "Cultural Marxism" or "Jewish".
Those labels hardly say anything specific or real about the people grouped under that tag.
People use those labels to generalize and point the "evil ones" more easily.
But 'easy' does not mean truth.

Kind regards!
Last edited by bridif1 on Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

Laurens
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by Laurens » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:53 am

Probably because Buddhism encourages austerity and restraint and western society encourages indulgence and hedonism.

Also people seem to think that they can do the mindfulness thing without the sila, in other words they pick and choose the parts that appeal to them and run with that, choosing to call it something else and change the packaging.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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Eko Care
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Re: Why so few Western Buddhists?

Post by Eko Care » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:58 am

DooDoot wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:42 pm
Why would "liberals" follow a religion since "liberalism" is the opposite of religion? Religion or dharma seeks to maintain or uphold the fabric of society (which centres on family values, the golden rule & charitableness) where as "liberalism" is often narcissistic sensual indulgence. What mostly is the result of "liberal religion" is like Protestant Evangelism, namely, salvation without morality; reincarnation without morality; ideas like when man destroys the earth we will all be reincarnated in other galaxies (to start the destructive narcissism all over again).
:thumbsup:
form wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:28 am
Because westerners have the tendency and nuturing to Western religions. When they study buddhism, their western tendencies comes into play also. I am not saying it is totally no good, it can be good in some ways.
:clap:
Laurens wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:53 am
Probably because Buddhism encourages austerity and restraint and western society encourages indulgence and hedonism.

Also people seem to think that they can do the mindfulness thing without the sila, in other words they pick and choose the parts that appeal to them and run with that, choosing to call it something else and change the packaging.
:goodpost:

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