Why telling lie is so bad?

[SarathW]

I think generally we all lie to some extent.
Politicians, sales people, business people name a few.
Some times we lie to the employer when we need to take a day off.
Then there is so called white lies.

But according to Buddha they all bad.
Why?


This king’s bull-elephant has thrown away his life, there is nothing to be done now for the king’s bull-elephant.’ Even so, Rāhula, of anyone for whom there is no shame at intentional lying, of him I say that there is no evil he cannot do. Wherefore, for you, Rāhula, ‘I will not speak a lie, even for fun’, this is how you must train yourself, Rāhula.>

https://suttacentral.net/en/mn61

[Sam Vara]

I like this account by Bhikkhu Bodhi. If we give up on truth, truth will give up on us.

It is said that in the course of his long training for enlightenment over many lives, a bodhisatta can break all the moral precepts except the pledge to speak the truth. The reason for this is very profound, and reveals that the commitment to truth has a significance transcending the domain of ethics and even mental purification, taking us to the domains of knowledge and being. Truthful speech provides, in the sphere of interpersonal communication, a parallel to wisdom in the sphere of private understanding. The two are respectively the outward and inward modalities of the same commitment to what is real. Wisdom consists in the realization of truth, and truth (sacca) is not just a verbal proposition but the nature of things as they are. To realize truth our whole being has to be brought into accord with actuality, with things as they are, which requires that in communications with others we respect things as they are by speaking the truth. Truthful speech establishes a correspondence between our own inner being and the real nature of phenomena, allowing wisdom to rise up and fathom their real nature. Thus, much more than an ethical principle, devotion to truthful speech is a matter of taking our stand on reality rather than illusion, on the truth grasped by wisdom rather than the fantasies woven by desire.

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/aut ... d.html#ch4

[befriend]

Dhamma practice is about putting all your effort to understand the truth of life always trying to see the truth of matters is what sets you free from misery. Lying is like creating a Mara it runs way outside the direction of the path.

[DooDoot]

I think generally we all lie to some extent.

Maybe not, at least not all of us. However, what do you think about forcefully insisting to another person that a certain idea is 'Right View' when you personally have no evidence for the reality of that idea, apart from religious faith. Do you think this is lying? Do you think faith religions, such as Christianity, Islam & Sinhalese Buddhism, nurture honesty in their followers or possibly nurture the opposite?

[SarathW]

I am mainly concern about things like white lies.
Lies there is no great harm.
Something like telling a small child that Santa will come through the Chimini.

[DooDoot]

I am mainly concern about things like white lies.
Lies there is no great harm.
Something like telling a small child that Santa will come through the Chimini.

So the tendency (anusaya) to lie & accept lies will not distort the capacity of a child, including into adulthood, to discern what is logical, coherent, true & real. For example, I saw a version of this speech yesterday, where Trump said the USA does not worship govt but worships god and then next spoke of continuing to build the US military. Are not all the people in this video conditioned in the habit of lying or distorting reality, including the religious meaning of 'god'?

[SarathW]

So the tendency (anusaya) to lie & accept lies will not distort the capacity of a child, including into adulthood, to discern what is logical, coherent, true & real.

But we tell stories to a child.

[DooDoot]

But we tell stories to a child.

I don't tell stories to children. In the suttas, the Buddha didn't tell stories to Rahula.

[Nicolas]

But we tell stories to a child.

Stories are not advertised as truth, but as fiction. Santa (for instance) is advertised as truth, which is deceitful.

[SarathW]

But we tell stories to a child.

Stories are not advertised as truth, but as fiction. Santa (for instance) is advertised as truth, which is deceitful.

Aren't fictions lies?

[Nicolas]

Aren't fictions lies?

No, because fictions do not claim to be true. They are fabrications, but not lies per se.

[pegembara]

A what if scenario.

Some armed men come to your home asking if you have seen any refugees hiding nearby. You are indeed aware of their presence in the nearby jungle and you know what is going to happen if you answer truthfully.

Which is worse? Telling a lie or speaking the truth.

The 4th precept isn't a commandment but an undertaking to try our best.

[Nicolas]

Some armed men come to your home asking if you have seen any refugees hiding nearby. You are indeed aware of their presence in the nearby jungle and you know what is going to happen if you answer truthfully.

Which is worse? Telling a lie or speaking the truth.

Silence is an option here.

[SarathW]

Bandits will not take silence for an answer.

[Dhammanando]

Aren't fictions lies?

In the commentaries one piece of fiction, the Rāmayāna's story of the kidnapping of Sitā by Rāvaṇa, is used as the stock example of frivolous speech, not false speech.

Mahasi Sayadaw, when expounding frivolous speech in his talks on the Sallekha Sutta cites this commentarial definition and then — just to be sure that his audience understands what it means — he proceeds to tell the whole story of the kidnapping!


At the end the sayadaw concludes:

People are instructed to accept all these as facts and hear the story again and again. Everyone who recites or hears it sincerely is assured of liberation from all evil kamma and passage to higher abodes after death [...] The believer who recites and hears this story is also guaranteed a heavenly life after death. In fact, to those who are not orthodox Hindus and intelligent, it is obvious that these stories are myths and fabrications. If we regard these stories as real events, the belief will impede spiritual progress and cause much harm. To encourage the belief in such stories will, therefore, lead to lower worlds and lack of credibility in case of rebirth in the human world.

According to the commentaries, listening to frivolous stories is kammically harmful only if one believes them. Again Visuddhimagga and other commentaries say that the yogī can overcome interest in frivolous talk only at the Arahatta stage. Therefore, we assume that interest in ordinary frivolous talk like one of the thirty kinds of it that do not lead to the nether worlds still lingers at the lower stages of the holy Path.

The kammic results of abstinence from frivolous talk is, of course, the opposite of the evils that beset one who indulges in it. One who avoids frivolous talk goes to higher abodes after death and if reborn as a human being, he is highly esteemed and trusted by other people.