Is Nibbana cessation of being?

[DooDoot]

There is three type of Bhava.
Kamma Bhava, Rupa Bhava and Arupa Bhava.

Kama (sensual) Bhava, Rupa (material) Bhava and Arupa (immaterial) Bhava.

kāma
masculine
pleasure; lust; enjoyment; an object of sexual enjoyment.

[retrofuturist]

Greetings Spiny,

Could you be more specific about which sankhata dhammas cease in your view?

All of them, but as you know from previous discussions you have a different understanding of what constitutes a sankhata-dhamma than I.

Metta,
Paul.

[DooDoot]

I was under the impression that as Nibbana is unconditioned or free from conditions, causes, etc. it cannot be the cessation of being/non-being or involve the destruction or creation of anything, except as a metaphor for “free of” or “freeing.”

Obviously this impression is incorrect given the Pali suttas could not be any more explicit:

154. O house-builder, you are seen! You will not build this house again. For your rafters are broken and your ridgepole shattered. My mind has reached the Unconditioned; I have attained the destruction of craving.

Dhammapada

And it is hard to see this truth, namely, the calming of all formations, the relinquishing of all acquisitions, the destruction of craving, dispassion, cessation, Nibbāna.

MN 26

This, bhikkhu, is a designation for the element of Nibbāna: the removal of lust, the removal of hatred, the removal of delusion. The destruction of the taints is spoken of in that way.

The destruction of lust, the destruction of hatred, the destruction of delusion: this is called the Deathless. This Noble Eightfold Path is the path leading to the Deathless; that is, right view … right concentration.

https://suttacentral.net/sn45.7/en/bodhi

And how, bhikkhus, do some hold back? Devas and humans enjoy being, delight in being, are satisfied with being. When Dhamma is taught to them for the cessation of being (bhavanirodhāya), their minds do not enter into it or acquire confidence in it or settle upon it or become resolved upon it. Thus, bhikkhus, do some hold back.

Iti 49 https://suttacentral.net/iti49/en/ireland

On seeing a form with the eye, he does not lust after it if it is pleasing; he does not dislike it if it is unpleasing. He abides with mindfulness of the body established, with an immeasurable mind, and he understands as it actually is the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom wherein those evil unwholesome states cease without remainder. Having thus abandoned favouring and opposing, whatever feeling he feels, whether pleasant or painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant, he does not delight in that feeling, welcome it, or remain holding to it. As he does not do so, delight in feelings ceases in him. With the cessation of his delight comes cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of being (bhavanirodho); with the cessation of being, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, ageing and death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.

MN 38 https://suttacentral.net/mn38/en/bodhi

[cappuccino]

Is Nibbana a cessation of being?

Yes.

no, no, no

nirvana is a worthy goal, however suicide is not a worthy goal

we seek nirvana rather than annihilation

[DooDoot]

no, no, no

Nibbana is the nirodha of bhava. Why falsify the teachings?

As for the translation of 'being' for 'bhava', maybe this needs to be examined more closely.

[cappuccino]

As for the translation of 'being' for 'bhava', maybe this needs to be examined more closely.

close to the actual, but not completely accurate or exact

[Spiny Norman]

But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn60

Is Nibbana a cessation of being?
and also
Is cessation means annihilation?

I think MN60 is just saying that if you have confidence that cessation of being is possible, then you are more likely to attain Nibbana.

"But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna."

"Being" here is bhava, also translated as "existence" and "becoming".

I don't think it's saying that Nibbana = cessation of bhava. In the suttas Nibbana is described as the cessation of the taints, not the cessation of bhava.

In SN12.2 bhava is described as existence in the three realms:

“And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence."
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi

[Saengnapha]

But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn60

Is Nibbana a cessation of being?
and also
Is cessation means annihilation?

I think MN60 is just saying that if you have confidence that cessation of being is possible, then you are more likely to attain Nibbana.

"But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna."

"Being" here is bhava, also translated as "existence" and "becoming".

I don't think it's saying that Nibbana = cessation of bhava. In the suttas Nibbana is described as the cessation of the taints, not the cessation of bhava.

In SN12.2 bhava is described as existence in the three realms:

“And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence."
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi

The cessation of the personalization of existence is a condition for Nibbana. It doesn't cause it because Nibbana would be a result, a conditioned appearance.

[User1249x]

If you logout from a game server or delete a mmorpg character is that a cessation of being? To a certain extent it is. Is that annihilation? As for your character and the experiences derived from the game and interaction with the game world it is and to that extent it is annihilation.

This not meant to be an analogy or anything just showing how one can talk about such concepts.

[Spiny Norman]

But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna.
https://suttacentral.net/en/mn60

Is Nibbana a cessation of being?
and also
Is cessation means annihilation?

I think MN60 is just saying that if you have confidence that cessation of being is possible, then you are more likely to attain Nibbana.

"But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna."

"Being" here is bhava, also translated as "existence" and "becoming".

I don't think it's saying that Nibbana = cessation of bhava. In the suttas Nibbana is described as the cessation of the taints, not the cessation of bhava.

In SN12.2 bhava is described as existence in the three realms:

“And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence."
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi

The cessation of the personalization of existence is a condition for Nibbana. It doesn't cause it because Nibbana would be a result, a conditioned appearance.

Could you explain what you mean by the "personalisation" of existence? Like regarding the aggregates as "me" and "mine"?

[Saengnapha]

I think MN60 is just saying that if you have confidence that cessation of being is possible, then you are more likely to attain Nibbana.

"But as to the recluses and brahmins who hold the doctrine and view “there definitely is a cessation of being,” if their word is true then it is possible that I might here and now attain final Nibbāna."

"Being" here is bhava, also translated as "existence" and "becoming".

I don't think it's saying that Nibbana = cessation of bhava. In the suttas Nibbana is described as the cessation of the taints, not the cessation of bhava.

In SN12.2 bhava is described as existence in the three realms:

“And what, bhikkhus, is existence? There are these three kinds of existence: sense-sphere existence, form-sphere existence, formless-sphere existence. This is called existence."
https://suttacentral.net/sn12.2/en/bodhi

The cessation of the personalization of existence is a condition for Nibbana. It doesn't cause it because Nibbana would be a result, a conditioned appearance.

Could you explain what you mean by the "personalisation" of existence? Like regarding the aggregates as "me" and "mine"?

Basically, yes. The whole conception of a person who is living in time and becoming that we identify with and feel that we are the center/controller and separate from experience.

[justindesilva]

If you logout from a game server or delete a mmorpg character is that a cessation of being? To a certain extent it is. Is that annihilation? As for your character and the experiences derived from the game and interaction with the game world it is and to that extent it is annihilation.

This not meant to be an analogy or anything just showing how one can talk about such concepts.

Lord budda in dammacakkapavattana sutta expressed cessation and that was only cessation if dukka.

[Dhammarakkhito]

cessation of existence

[Spiny Norman]

cessation of existence

So cessation of the taints rather than cessation of being?

"I'll be back...hasta la vista.."

[Dhammarakkhito]

idk, the english words may obfuscate
being is defined in suttas by craving, delight
only suffering arises and only suffering passes away
how do you describe the destination of a fire that has gone out (due to a lack of fuel (upādāna))? it's a false question