Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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archaic
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by archaic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:39 am

binocular wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:58 pm
archaic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:42 pm
This is frustrating to me because I am *certain* that my sensual cravings for food form a major, if not *the major impediment to my continued spiritual progress.
Instead of looking at this food problem of yours as an impediment, you could also reframe it as simply the task at hand for spiritual progress.
Yes you are quite right. It is definitely an opportunity for continued insight.
I don't let it phase me too much but it is still a continued source of perturbation.

You are also correct about lifestyle; unless my mealtimes and meal choices become very predictable, it will likely be difficult to find an adequate resolution.

As for exercise, I have learned after much trial and error that heavy exercise makes me very prone to overeating... So I usually stick to light exercise such as yoga, walking, and biking. Weight training especially makes me sore and fatigued and prone to eating a lot, which is not ideal since I don't need to gain muscle at this point in my life.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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archaic
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by archaic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:51 am

Crazy cloud wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:47 pm
archaic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:29 pm
Crazy cloud wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:50 am
Hi,
by coincidence and by doing general practice I discovered that if one manages to stop listening to the mind for what is the right diet, and solely listen to what the body says, - then the diet will be balanced according to the activities one picks up. I been practicing a few months with fasting on and off, and has learned a lot just by letting go of so called "controlled diet" - the body is far more trustworthy than my self when it comes to bodily needs. And practices has opened up to some interesting new developments here.

So like in regular meditation, diet becomes very easy when one manages to let go of the controller ..

Best regards! :)
This is a good concept. Perhaps you can elaborate on how you do this. Is it specifically watching for hunger as the cue which permits you to eat?
Hi, that`s a tough call for me, but i try my best:

Over the last 10 years I`ve developed a style of training that is based on continuous intuitiv awareness 24/7, and let the heart guide me in whatever is needed for moving forward in the process of total purification of the citta. The heart picks up aspects like this one, and then I trust and rely on it and just relax into changes of practice, and it becomes effortless and enjoyable all the way.

what to eat is not my business, but I experience that the body itself dosen`t like the same food as I would prefer. It only picks all the "boring stuff", but the effect on the overall quality of moment to moment mindfulness is obvious. This practice is to me so sweet that braking it sometimes feels like a bigger obstacle than just going on and on.
So like mentioned above, it follows the same pattern as other hindrances do when experienced: As long as I, me and mine are gone, then meditation goes on by itself ...

Hope this can make some sense, and many apologies if not :anjali:
As I am understanding you, It sounds like you have been cultivating a constant samatha and it has been very beneficial to you.... That is excellent, your practice obviously has been very beneficial for you.

I am not yet at that stage! But thankfully I do get very deep and prolonged undistracted meditations.

During daily activities when not meditating (and in dreams) my mind wanders frequently to things like food, family, and mundane concerns. When I notice this I go back to focus on the breath, body-scans, or awareness of thoughts and feelings. I try to avoid situations which lessen the calm state. As I progress I would like to work towards developing a constant relaxed awareness, similar to yours.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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archaic
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by archaic » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:52 am

altar wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:49 pm
I have similar issues. I'm trying to relax my mind as much as possible so I just don't think of food.
Haha the path of no-path... :woohoo:

I should strive not to think about it too much as well.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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Crazy cloud
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by Crazy cloud » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:58 am

archaic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:51 am
Crazy cloud wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:47 pm
archaic wrote:
Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:29 pm


This is a good concept. Perhaps you can elaborate on how you do this. Is it specifically watching for hunger as the cue which permits you to eat?

So like mentioned above, it follows the same pattern as other hindrances do when experienced: As long as I, me and mine are gone, then meditation goes on by itself ...

Hope this can make some sense, and many apologies if not :anjali:
As I am understanding you, It sounds like you have been cultivating a constant samatha and it has been very beneficial to you....
Glad to say that you understood me right. The result one gets is based on long and for some "very long and boring practice". And to pinpoint exactly what happened before results shows up is quite complicated, because when one starts trying to recall the whole process it always sounds more difficult than it actually was experienced to be when it actually happened. The best one can say is that the teaching is true, and that it constitutes of eight different aspekts, and all of them has to be active and in place for keeping necessary mental balance
I am not yet at that stage! But thankfully I do get very deep and prolonged undistracted meditations.
That is nice to hear :smile: I have a few of them myself, but have learned that when it comes to keeping my type of person happy enough to practice 24/7, I have to both challenge myself in real life and alternate between different ways of meditating. Maybe my type likes to have it proven several times before it lets go .. When I do fasting i usually do it during work periods (3 - 4 days and nights in a row). And then I get colleagues working with to help me by giving me feedback if they notice some negative results occurring from this particular training metode.
Actually when I think about it now, I cant say what has been most useful; sometimes a long formal meditation is what does the trick and other times is those sudden drop downs into stillness (maybe just for a minute or so ..) during a normal day is enough.
During daily activities when not meditating (and in dreams) my mind wanders frequently to things like food, family, and mundane concerns. When I notice this I go back to focus on the breath, body-scans, or awareness of thoughts and feelings. I try to avoid situations which lessen the calm state. As I progress I would like to work towards developing a constant relaxed awareness, similar to yours.
If you see your mind wanders frequently during daily activities, I would say that you are mindful enough and actually at least in a meditative kind of mode. I am doing the same thing, and often there are also enough time to become still and look more closely at particular experiences. I also use the four foundations for calming down, but has also included "sound of silence" (Ajahn Sumedho) into the daily toolkit. An important detail when it comes to being relaxed and happy enough is that I m quite done with the world, so I hardly miss anything at all from the same place. And when normal people find me both odd and weird in my alternativ thinking, then it doesn't bother me at all and I dont even care to argue against their arguments and whatever ...
When it comes to avoiding stuff, i do think that sometimes it is best to take them head on ... When i do fasting I also sign up for being the chef during work period, and that is because I like to see how the mind reacts in different situations so that the result isn't solely based on making special conditions.

Like to say a bit more about how I use intuitiv awareness and listening to the heart: Whenever i notice that something resonates deep inside (, I try to find ut what it is, and then follow that lead. And many many times I have to say that I would never have done it if I was controlling all of this I call wandering the path - I just close off for the controller and trust that which resonates and keep wandering on till it gets there ...

:smile:

Edit nov 21: Hi again - forgot to mention that this practice has also resulted in an instant change of diet from "normal" to vegetarian
If you didn't care
What happened to me
And I didn't care for you

We would zig-zag our way
Through the boredom and pain
Occasionally glancing up through the rain

Wondering which of the
Buggers to blame
And watching for pigs on the wing
- Roger Waters

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archaic
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by archaic » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:44 pm

@Crazy Cloud: You have some very interesting experiences. Its good to hear your different perspectives...

Yes my mind has been watching itself more and more, contributing to a kind of meditative mode of thinking. It's useful, I find I almost never get the feeling of being bored or restless like I used to. I can just sit in traffic or stand waiting in a line at the store with total patience, entirely uncaring whether the line moves quickly or not. It's definitely freeing, it also makes the emotion of frustration much more uncommon in my life.

I watched/listened to the Sound of Silence YouTube, it is great. Many times I have noticed this Sound of Silence, but never used it as the object of meditation before.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

binocular
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by binocular » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am

archaic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:39 am
You are also correct about lifestyle; unless my mealtimes and meal choices become very predictable, it will likely be difficult to find an adequate resolution.
And try not to beat yourself up too much. Homemade vegetarian food, especially one that contains a lot of legumes and grains, requires quite a bit of planning and preparation; usually more than meals that contain meat or which are cooked from commercially prepared food. It requires even more planning if one is cooking only for one person most of the time. This is the reason why not just a few people give up on it -- it's simply too demanding.

So bear in mind that what you're trying to do is something that is objectively hard to do; and that whatever resistance you're feeling in your mind isn't just some idle idiosyncracy of yours, but something much more general and common.

Good luck!
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

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archaic
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by archaic » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:47 pm

binocular wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:10 am
archaic wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:39 am
You are also correct about lifestyle; unless my mealtimes and meal choices become very predictable, it will likely be difficult to find an adequate resolution.
And try not to beat yourself up too much. Homemade vegetarian food, especially one that contains a lot of legumes and grains, requires quite a bit of planning and preparation; usually more than meals that contain meat or which are cooked from commercially prepared food. It requires even more planning if one is cooking only for one person most of the time. This is the reason why not just a few people give up on it -- it's simply too demanding.

So bear in mind that what you're trying to do is something that is objectively hard to do; and that whatever resistance you're feeling in your mind isn't just some idle idiosyncracy of yours, but something much more general and common.

Good luck!
Thank you. This is truly very balanced, insightful, and helpful of you to say.

Metta.
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

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_anicca_
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by _anicca_ » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:58 pm

I believe that one can be overweight and still be enlightened. For instance, they could have overindulged in food prior to eliminating sensual pleasures, so now they are reaping the kamma of that with the obesity and the poor eating habits.

Intermittent fasting (such as only eating for 8 hours a day or fasting once or twice a week), really paying attention to your hunger - eat mindfully, intelligently, and intuitively- eat till you are just full "enough", having scheduled times for meals and snacks and not eating outside of that is another idea.

The idea here is that you're not being blown around by your desires for certain flavors: eat what the body needs, and not what the mind wants.



**It should be noted that the issue is your thinking about the food. You need to find a way to stop your thoughts. If you didn't think about food, your mind wouldn't crave. The body is the mind's puppet to go and reach for sensual pleasures.
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self."

:buddha1:

http://vipassanameditation.asia

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_anicca_
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Re: Asking for Help re: nutriment and sensual desire

Post by _anicca_ » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:04 pm

Reference this hunger scale.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hunger+ ... 6&dpr=1.75

Learn to give your hunger a number (1-10, as detailed here) and stop before you get above a 7.
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self."

:buddha1:

http://vipassanameditation.asia

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