Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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LG2V
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Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by LG2V » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 pm

Hey everyone,

What are the kammic consequences for using supernormal powers for personal/material gain? For example, if someone were to produce gold with mental powers or by some other resolve bring personal wealth?
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chownah
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by chownah » Thu Nov 16, 2017 2:36 am

I think that it is clear that if we blindly just use ordinary powers for personal/material gain that the results often detrimental......seems like with using supernormal powers the results would often be superdetrimental.......I guess.....don't know for sure.....
chownah

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LG2V
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by LG2V » Thu Nov 16, 2017 7:33 am

Thanks chownah.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

binocular
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by binocular » Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:15 pm

LG2V wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 pm
What are the kammic consequences for using supernormal powers for personal/material gain? For example, if someone were to produce gold with mental powers or by some other resolve bring personal wealth?
Chances are they would get problems with the IRS, and they would have to sell/trade in whatever goods they supernormally produced illegally on the black market or legally only in very small amounts (just try to sell diamonds or precious metals in bulk without having the proper documentation for them!). It doesn't seem like an easy life.

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Kim OHara
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by Kim OHara » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:02 pm

LG2V wrote:
Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:03 pm
Hey everyone,

What are the kammic consequences for using supernormal powers for personal/material gain? For example, if someone were to produce gold with mental powers or by some other resolve bring personal wealth?
Most, maybe all, Buddhist traditions forbid monks from showing off supernormal powers because such powers can distract them and their audience from the true goal of the religious life. I have come across suggestions that the conflict between the powers and the goal goes much deeper, although I can't remember where, and that the powers only arise when all personal greed - for material possessions or for power - has fallen away. The result is that an advanced practitioner could use their powers to help others but couldn't even consider using it to enrich themselves ... and if someone tried to talk them into it, they would probably slip out of the state of mind from which their powers arise.

Bottom line: it ain't a get-rich-quick scheme. :tongue:

:namaste:
Kim

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LG2V
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by LG2V » Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:52 pm

binocular wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 12:15 pm
Chances are they would get problems with the IRS, and they would have to sell/trade in whatever goods they supernormally produced illegally on the black market or legally only in very small amounts (just try to sell diamonds or precious metals in bulk without having the proper documentation for them!). It doesn't seem like an easy life.
That's an interesting way to look at it. I hadn't even considered that.
Kim OHara wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 10:02 pm

Most, maybe all, Buddhist traditions forbid monks from showing off supernormal powers because such powers can distract them and their audience from the true goal of the religious life. I have come across suggestions that the conflict between the powers and the goal goes much deeper, although I can't remember where, and that the powers only arise when all personal greed - for material possessions or for power - has fallen away. The result is that an advanced practitioner could use their powers to help others but couldn't even consider using it to enrich themselves ... and if someone tried to talk them into it, they would probably slip out of the state of mind from which their powers arise.

Bottom line: it ain't a get-rich-quick scheme. :tongue:

:namaste:
Kim
This is a good point. I suppose that if a lay person were to do it, then the consequences wouldn't be as bad, but would be undesirable, such as losing the ability to access the supranormal state.
Here are some excellent sites for giving free Dana (Click-Based Donation):
http://freerice.comhttp://greatergood.com/www.ripple.orgwww.thenonprofits.com

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DNS
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by DNS » Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm

Is there even a Sutta reference that Iddhi powers could be used in such a way?

I would think kamma-vipaka would prevent it from happening (according to Buddhism), even if one wished for it.

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Dhammanando
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by Dhammanando » Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 am

DNS wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm
Is there even a Sutta reference that Iddhi powers could be used in such a way?

Not in the Pali suttas. There is, however, a German translation of a Tibetan gterma called Die Große Rumpelstilzchen Sūtra. It was discovered in the mid-19th century by a pair of Hessian tertöns called the Brothers Grimm and reveals a secret technique for converting straw into gold. Unfortunately using it carries the unwelcome obligation of having to give away one’s first-born child to an evil dwarf.

:cry:

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DNS
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by DNS » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:12 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 am
DNS wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm
Is there even a Sutta reference that Iddhi powers could be used in such a way?
Not in the Pali suttas.
:thumbsup:
There is, however, a German translation of a Tibetan gterma called Die Große Rumpelstilzchen Sūtra. It was discovered in the mid-19th century by a pair of Hessian tertöns called the Brothers Grimm and reveals a secret technique for converting straw into gold. Unfortunately using it carries the unwelcome obligation of having to give away one’s first-born child to an evil dwarf.
Rumpelstilzchen? Seriously, that is the origin of Rumpelstilzchen fairy tale? Or are you joking? :tongue:

Garrib
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by Garrib » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:24 am

lol I used to be obsessed with a certain Rumpelstiltskin movie as a kid - glad to hear of its Buddhist roots :lol:

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Kim OHara
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by Kim OHara » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:30 am

Dhammanando wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 12:27 am
DNS wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm
Is there even a Sutta reference that Iddhi powers could be used in such a way?

Not in the Pali suttas. There is, however, a German translation of a Tibetan gterma called Die Große Rumpelstilzchen Sūtra. It was discovered in the mid-19th century by a pair of Hessian tertöns called the Brothers Grimm and reveals a secret technique for converting straw into gold. Unfortunately using it carries the unwelcome obligation of having to give away one’s first-born child to an evil dwarf.

:cry:
:jumping:

:rofl:
Kim

justindesilva
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by justindesilva » Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:38 am

DNS wrote:
Thu Nov 16, 2017 11:01 pm
Is there even a Sutta reference that Iddhi powers could be used in such a way?

I would think kamma-vipaka would prevent it from happening (according to Buddhism), even if one wished for it.
When Lord BUddha came to know that his drsciples bikku Pindola Baradvaja used iddhi powers to exhibit his supremacy to get a bowl of satinwood , Lord budda explained that such exhibitions should be made only to eliminate defilements.
Again in kevatta sutta Lord Buddha explains that iddhi as psychic powers, telepathy , and miracles should not be used to show supremacy of oneself.
Vinaya pitaka discussed that iddhi should not be used by bikkus .

form
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Re: Using Iddhi for Personal Gain

Post by form » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:15 am

In a school of Chinese magic, one can choose either one of the three to practice such craft. 1) before midnight he has to give away any money or valuable he has, 2) his clothes should always have holes, 3) he cannot have any off spring and family.

The tibetan tradition should have some details on how such karmic forces exchanged.

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