Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
D1W1
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:52 am

Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by D1W1 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm

Hi all,

I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.

User avatar
BlueLotus
Posts: 415
Joined: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:46 am

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by BlueLotus » Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:46 pm

Seriously dude?
:rofl:

D1W1
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:52 am

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by D1W1 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:25 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:46 pm
Seriously dude?
:rofl:
Why? What makes you think sperm can live outside human body?

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5633
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by Aloka » Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:38 pm

Maybe this will help to put your mind at rest about "killing" your sperm:

https://www.quora.com/Is-masturbating-c ... ed-killing



:anjali:

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 10928
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by DNS » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:13 pm

It is not fertilized without the egg. In the same way, a woman's cycle is not killing anyone either. And neither is eating eggs (non-fertilized ones), which is why vegetarians eat eggs.

User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 10928
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 4:15 am
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada
Contact:

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by DNS » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:20 pm

I think I heard that when a male (mammal) has sex, even when he impregnates the female, there are some one million sperm that race toward the egg and it is only one sperm that fertilizes the egg, so if it were killing, then even when pregnancy occurs, it would be the "killing" of about 999,999 sperm.

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1599
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, Southern California, USA
Contact:

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by lyndon taylor » Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:44 pm

If you're really worried about it you could masturbate and donate your sperm to the sperm bank. :juggling:
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

dharmacorps
Posts: 206
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 7:33 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by dharmacorps » Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:31 pm

Asking this question is a path to madness from a biological perspective. Your sperm are a part of your body. In the same way, if you scratch your hand, you could be "killing" skin cells.

If your sperm could come out of your body and then walk around and talk maybe we'd be having a different conversation. :shrug:

2600htz
Posts: 206
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:37 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by 2600htz » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:07 pm

Hello:

In order to kill there has to be a "being".

(MN 38)

"Monks, the descent of the embryo occurs with the union of three things. There is the case where there is no union of the mother & father, the mother is not in her season, and a gandhabba [8] is not present, nor is there a descent of an embryo. There is the case where there is a union of the mother & father, and the mother is in her season, but a gandhabba is not present, nor is there a descent of an embryo. But when there is a union of the mother & father, the mother is in her season, and a gandhabba is present, then with this union of three things the descent of the embryo occurs.


If this conditions don´t come to be, there is no descent of the embryo. It doesn´t have volition,consciousness, mind-body process, feeling, etc.
Your sperm is life form (like plants), but not a being.


Regards.
Last edited by 2600htz on Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
ryanM
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:13 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by ryanM » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:07 pm

Also, sperm are continuously manufactured in your testes as older cells die off. You’re just encouraging new cells to form.
sabbe dhammā nālaṃ abhinivesāya

"nothing whatsoever should be clung to"

chownah
Posts: 6590
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:22 am

dharmacorps wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:31 pm
If your sperm could come out of your body and then walk around and talk maybe we'd be having a different conversation. :shrug:

chownah

chownah
Posts: 6590
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:26 am

D1W1 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
Hi all,

I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.
The first precept is about living beings and the suttas talk about a living being arising only after the sperm unites with the egg and descends into the womb.....so until this happens there is no living being an the first precept does not apply.
chownah

Justsit
Posts: 489
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:41 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by Justsit » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:44 am

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:22 am
dharmacorps wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:31 pm
If your sperm could come out of your body and then walk around and talk maybe we'd be having a different conversation. :shrug:
[Video}
chownah
:rofl: Oh, Chownah, you're a gem.

justindesilva
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:35 am

D1W1 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
Hi all,

I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.
From my references from texts Lord Buddha mentions sbout masterbation ( sukkhavissati ) in vinayapitaka (vin111.109) that it is not a mental theurspitic action .
Then vin 111.111 is said to have laid down as an offence for Buddhist monks and nuns.
The 1st precept only mentions about harming or killing sentient beings or beings with a nervous system. As the sperm is not a sentient being destroying of sperms can not be considered against the 1st precept.

User avatar
L.N.
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by L.N. » Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:13 am

D1W1 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.
I suppose it depends on whether your intention is to kill sperm, with the recurring thought of "kill, kill, kill" with each throttle. If so, this may be an occasion to examine one's engagement with this particular training rule.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

chownah
Posts: 6590
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by chownah » Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:43 am

justindesilva wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:35 am
D1W1 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
Hi all,

I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.
From my references from texts Lord Buddha mentions sbout masterbation ( sukkhavissati ) in vinayapitaka (vin111.109) that it is not a mental theurspitic action .
Then vin 111.111 is said to have laid down as an offence for Buddhist monks and nuns.
The 1st precept only mentions about harming or killing sentient beings or beings with a nervous system. As the sperm is not a sentient being destroying of sperms can not be considered against the 1st precept.
If you have a sutta reference to beings with a nervous system I would be ever so glad to know it so I could go and take a look.
chownah

User avatar
L.N.
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by L.N. » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:30 pm

"Throttle" is a technical term for choking the chicken. If you are using two hands, there may be an intention to kill.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

justindesilva
Posts: 434
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by justindesilva » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:36 pm

chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:43 am
justindesilva wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:35 am
D1W1 wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 2:51 pm
Hi all,

I'm wondering is masturbation the same thing as breaking the first precept since the sperm is unable to live outside of human body for long time. Thanks.
From my references from texts Lord Buddha mentions sbout masterbation ( sukkhavissati ) in vinayapitaka (vin111.109) that it is not a mental theurspitic action .
Then vin 111.111 is said to have laid down as an offence for Buddhist monks and nuns.
The 1st precept only mentions about harming or killing sentient beings or beings with a nervous system. As the sperm is not a sentient being destroying of sperms can not be considered against the 1st precept.
If you have a sutta reference to beings with a nervous system I would be ever so glad to know it so I could go and take a look.
chownah
Hi Chownah
This explanation of beings with nervous system was heard by me at a Buddhist sermon by a bikku with a BSc in Microbiology " Pitiduwe Siridamma" about 10 years ago, but well remembered by me. However I shall try to find a relevant sutta from a bikku I am acquainted with.
It will be good for me too. Thank you.

User avatar
L.N.
Posts: 494
Joined: Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:01 pm

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by L.N. » Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:43 pm

If you are beating the bishop so much that you kill, this may constitute involuntary manslaughter. Since this is unintentional, it arguably is not counter to the training rule.
Sire patitthitā Buddhā
Dhammo ca tava locane
Sangho patitthitō tuiham
uresabba gunākaro


愿众佛坐在我的头顶, 佛法在我的眼中, 僧伽,功德的根源, 端坐在我的肩上。

D1W1
Posts: 365
Joined: Sat May 30, 2015 5:52 am

Re: Is masturbation the same thing as killing?

Post by D1W1 » Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:59 pm

Thanks guys for the prompt reply, sorry for the late reply.
2600htz wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:07 pm
Hello:

In order to kill there has to be a "being".

(MN 38)

"Monks, the descent of the embryo occurs with the union of three things. There is the case where there is no union of the mother & father, the mother is not in her season, and a gandhabba [8] is not present, nor is there a descent of an embryo. There is the case where there is a union of the mother & father, and the mother is in her season, but a gandhabba is not present, nor is there a descent of an embryo. But when there is a union of the mother & father, the mother is in her season, and a gandhabba is present, then with this union of three things the descent of the embryo occurs.


If this conditions don´t come to be, there is no descent of the embryo. It doesn´t have volition,consciousness, mind-body process, feeling, etc.
Your sperm is life form (like plants), but not a being.


Regards.
What is gandhabba?
chownah wrote:
Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:26 am
The first precept is about living beings and the suttas talk about a living being arising only after the sperm unites with the egg and descends into the womb.....so until this happens there is no living being an the first precept does not apply.
chownah
So sperm is just like a plant, there is life force but not a living being, as mentioned by someone previously? Which Sutta are you referring to?

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: JamesTheGiant, kiwi, Sobhana, tinhtan, Yahoo [Bot] and 87 guests