Nature in the Suttas and it's appreciation. Scary, delightful, both?

[Polar Bear]

I stumbled on an old thread here: Did the Buddha really live in the forest? .

It seems from this that it is the quality of experience that the habitation gives rise to that is important here, rather than its exact geographical designation. Presumably, in a big park there might be areas which are completely lacking in the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and bodily sensations conducive to lust, hatred, and delusion. Just as much, in fact, as a totally isolated thicket many day's trek from any habitation.

And it's interesting what the suttas about living in forests don't talk about. They don't talk about the beautiful, peaceful, natural environment. Coming from a cultural background of romantic writers I find it's sometimes easy to overlook that.


Mike

I think I somewhat disagree with Mike. It is true to an extent, many suttas depict nature as basically just a scary place unless your meditation is good or you are awakened. But there are others that seem to reflect an appreciation for it, even aesthetically. I'm going to post some sutta snippets that I think bring out appreciation of nature and I'd appreciate anybody posting any thoughts they might have regarding the early buddhist attitude to nature, it's beauty or peacefulness, etc.

"In search of what might be skillful, seeking the unexcelled state of sublime peace, I wandered by stages in the Magadhan country and came to the military town of Uruvela. There I saw some delightful countryside, with an inspiring forest grove, a clear-flowing river with fine, delightful banks, and villages for alms-going on all sides. The thought occurred to me: 'How delightful is this countryside, with its inspiring forest grove, clear-flowing river with fine, delightful banks, and villages for alms-going on all sides. This is just right for the striving of a clansman intent on striving.' So I sat down right there, thinking, 'This is just right for striving.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

repeated in Ariyapariyesana sutta here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Certainly, brahman, the Bamboo Grove is delightful, quiet, free of noise, with an air of isolation, remote from human beings, & appropriate for retreat because of guardians & protectors like yourself."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

When the thundering storm cloud roars out in the mist,
And torrents of rain fill the paths of the birds,
Nestled in a mountain cave, the monk meditates.
— No greater contentment than this can be found.

When along the rivers the tumbling flowers bloom
In winding wreaths adorned with verdant color,
Seated on the bank, glad-minded, he meditates.
— No greater contentment than this can be found.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .olen.html

The color of blue-dark clouds,
glistening,
cooled with the waters
of clear-flowing streams
covered with ladybugs:
those rocky crags
refresh me.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... passage-13

With clear waters &
massive boulders,
frequented by monkeys &
deer,
covered with moss &
water weeds,
those rocky crags refresh me.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... assage-113

I'm sure there's plenty more pleasant descriptions of nature in the Thera-Therigatha but I think this suffices for now.

It seems to me from this that an Arahant (or at least a sekha) could perhaps take some kind of non-grasping delight in nature that does not only have to do with the fact that it is a secluded place. I imagine there probably would not be such nice descriptions if the arahants and adepts had been meditating in solitary confinement cells in prison.

I suppose the main thrust is I'm wondering: Can a positive view of nature, even of it's aesthetic quality, be justified by the suttas?

Can an arahant delight in or enjoy the beauty of a natural setting? Or perhaps only once-returners and lower who have not eradicated sense-desire.

Should a forest monk refrain from ever enjoying nature? Or at least not intentionally revel in it, I'm sure there are some benefits or unavoidably enjoyable aspects of being in nature whether one is consciously looking for them or not, e.g. negative ions:

Negative ions are odorless, tasteless, and invisible molecules that we inhale in abundance in certain environments. Think mountains, waterfalls, and beaches. Once they reach our bloodstream, negative ions are believed to produce biochemical reactions that increase levels of the mood chemical serotonin, helping to alleviate depression, relieve stress, and boost our daytime energy.

http://www.webmd.com/balance/features/n ... ve-vibes#1

I'm interested in all your thoughts.

[Polar Bear]

See also:

MEDITATION AND NATURAL BEAUTY
The Buddha and his ordained disciples spent a significant amount of their time in natural surroundings. This was mainly because forests offered them the silence and peace that can make meditation easier. But apart from this advantage, it seems the beauties of the natural world, of the groves and hills, the flowers and the jungle pools, the rustle of the leaves and the songs of the birds, have the ability to enhanced meditation. The Buddha specifically mentioned that he decided to settle down to do the final meditation just before his enlightenment at Uruvelà, in part because of the sylvan surroundings. He said: `Then, being a seeker for the good, searching for the incomparable, matchless path of peace, while walking on tour through Magadha, I arrived at Uruvelà, the army township. There I saw a beautiful stretch of ground, a lovely woodland grove, a clear flowing river with a delightful bank and a village nearby for support. And I thought ßIndeed, this is a good place for a young man set on striving.û So I sat down there, thinking ßIndeed, this is a good place for strivingû.'(M.I,166-7).

The Visuddhimagga says that different psychological types can meditate in some locations better than in others. A person prone to negative passions, it suggests, does better in an `abode provided with shade and water, with well-proportioned walls, pillars and steps, with attractive frieze and lattice-work and brightened with various types of paintings'. A slow-minded person should, it continues, do his or her meditation in an unenclosed location, for example `where gardens, groves and ponds, pleasant prospects, panoramas of villages, towns and landscapes and the blue haze of the hills are visible' (Vism.110).

If the beauties of the natural world can assist meditation it is also true that the meditator's mind can develop a heightened awareness of and appreciation for beauty, including natural beauty. When someone told him that he found the forests frightening, the Buddha replied: `At the midday hour when the birds are quiet, I find the rustle of the great forest delightful'(S.I,7).

Much of the poetry in the Theragàthà and the Therãgàtha bears eloquent testimony to the link between successful meditation and the sensitivity to nature. The monk Bhåta said that meditation together with sylvan surroundings filled him with the highest joy. `When the storm clouds rumble and pour down their torrents and the birds take to the sky, the monk who has gone to his grotto to meditate finds no greater delight than this. When happily meditating on the flowery river bank, surrounded by the many and varied plants, he finds no greater delight than this. When night comes to the lonely grove with a shower of rain and the roar of the fanged beasts, the monk who has gone to his grotto to meditate finds no greater delight than this' (Th.522-4). Another monk, Taëapuña, composed these verses.`In a rocky grotto on a mountain peak, a delightful place, where wild boar and deer roam, sprinkled with rain drops, I go to my cave and rejoice. Peacocks with their azure necks, beautiful crests, colourful tails and variegated wings, greet the rolling thunder with their calls. What delight as you meditate in the woods! And when the rain has fallen, when the grass is four fingers high, when the forest is in full bloom, I shall drift like a cloud on the mountain, lie like a tree in the forest, light as a wisp of cotton'(Th.1135-7).

A few passages in the Tipiñaka even suggest that the beauty of the landscape might be enhanced by the enlightened ascetics who choose to make it their abode. `Whether in village or forest, on hills or plain, wherever saints live, that is a delightful place' (Dhp.98). See Gardens.

http://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=486

Olendzki here:

...The first stanza reflects the balanced appreciation of the natural world that comes from the focused but equanimous mind in meditation. Pleasurable sensations, such as the ones described here in response to the beauty of nature, can be experienced mindfully by those devoid of craving, without the tendency present in most of us to cling to the pleasure or resist its inevitable passing away. Early Buddhist poetry often points out the beauties of nature, but seldom lingers on them.


The peacocks — with lovely feathers, lovely wings,
Lovely blue necks and lovely faces,
Call out — a lovely song with a lovely sound.
This great earth has lovely waters and grasses;
There are lovely clouds in the sky.

Meditating with a good sound body and a good mind,
It is good to go forth well
In the good teaching of the Buddha.
Experience that highest, unwavering state!
Most pure, subtle, most hard to see.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .olen.html

[Spiny Norman]

Should a forest monk refrain from ever enjoying nature? Or at least not intentionally revel in it, I'm sure there are some benefits or unavoidably enjoyable aspects of being in nature whether one is consciously looking for them or not, e.g. negative ions:

I find the natural world to be a great teacher. It's all there.

PS I live near the sea, and one of my "practices" is watching waves. It's a great way to experience the transience of the elements, with the bonus of occasionally seeing curious seals and passing porpoises.

[Mkoll]

I have heard that on one occasion a certain monk was dwelling among the Kosalans in a forest thicket. Now at that time, after his meal, returning from his almsround, he went down to a lotus pond and sniffed a red lotus.

Then the devata inhabiting the forest thicket, feeling sympathy for the monk, desiring his benefit, desiring to bring him to his senses, approached him and addressed him with this verse:


You sniff this water-born flower
that hasn't been given to you.
This, dear sir, is a factor of stealing.
You are a thief of a scent.

[The monk:]
I don't take, don't damage.
I sniff at the lotus
from far away.
So why do you call me
a thief of a scent?

One who
digs up the stalks,
damages flowers,
one of such ruthless behavior:
why don't you say it of him?

[The devata:]
A person ruthless & grasping,
smeared like a nursing diaper:
to him
I have nothing to say.
It's you
to whom I should speak.

To a person unblemished,
constantly searching for purity,
a hair-tip's worth of evil
seems as large
as a cloud.

[The monk:]
Yes, yakkha, you understand me
and show me sympathy.
Warn me again, yakkha,
whenever again
you see something like this.

[The devata:]
I don't depend on you
for my living
nor am I
your hired hand.
You, monk,
you yourself should know
how to go to the good destination.
The monk, chastened by the devata, came to his senses.

My reading of the above sutta and the ones you've provided is that the ideal practitioner should not be seeking delight in nature. As the mind becomes ever more purified from craving, even seeking delight in something as innocent as a flower's scent is a stain on the mind, moving it away from samadhi. But for the average practitioner, finding delight in nature can be one of the least harmful ways to find delight as the above sutta implies with its comparison to a "hair-tip's worth of evil."

You'll also notice that in many of the passages, the beauty of certain conditions of nature is commented on because of its relation to meditation and striving. The primary focus there isn't the beauty of those natural conditions per se, it's that they serve as an ideal platform for bhavana.

From the Thera/Therigatha passages, it seems the arahant (and perhaps the non-returner) finds pleasure in nature. But it appears to be of a spontaneous sort, not something searched out or desired. I don't think this is a problem for anyone and it's quite likely that finding spontaneous pleasure in the sights and sounds of certain conditions of nature is as natural as finding pleasant feeling in pleasant tastes.

[binocular]

It seems from this that it is the quality of experience that the habitation gives rise to that is important here, rather than its exact geographical designation. Presumably, in a big park there might be areas which are completely lacking in the sights, sounds, smells, tastes, and bodily sensations conducive to lust, hatred, and delusion. Just as much, in fact, as a totally isolated thicket many day's trek from any habitation.

And it's interesting what the suttas about living in forests don't talk about. They don't talk about the beautiful, peaceful, natural environment. Coming from a cultural background of romantic writers I find it's sometimes easy to overlook that.

They do talk about the beautiful aspects of nature -- such as in similes. For example:

"And as for a person who is pure in his bodily behavior & verbal behavior, and who periodically experiences mental clarity & calm, how should one subdue hatred for him? Just as when there is a pool of clear water — sweet, cool, & limpid, with gently sloping banks, & shaded on all sides by trees of many kinds — and a person comes along, burning with heat, covered with sweat, exhausted, trembling, & thirsty. Having plunged into the pool, having bathed & drunk & come back out, he would sit down or lie down right there in the shade of the trees. In the same way, when an individual is pure in his bodily behavior & verbal behavior, and periodically experiences mental clarity & calm, one should at that time pay attention to the purity of his bodily behavior...the purity of his verbal behavior, and to the fact that he periodically experiences mental clarity & calm. Thus the hatred for him should be subdued. An entirely inspiring individual can make the mind grow serene.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

A simile like that works because it capitalizes on a person's appreciation of natural beauty.

I suppose the main thrust is I'm wondering: Can a positive view of nature, even of it's aesthetic quality, be justified by the suttas?

Wouldn't a similar analysis as the one on the foulness of the human body apply?

Can an arahant delight in or enjoy the beauty of a natural setting? Or perhaps only once-returners and lower who have not eradicated sense-desire.

If they are beyond clinging, then their enjoyment, whatever it is or would be, is or would be of a categorically different kind than what we ordinary people are used to.

Should a forest monk refrain from ever enjoying nature? Or at least not intentionally revel in it, I'm sure there are some benefits or unavoidably enjoyable aspects of being in nature whether one is consciously looking for them or not,

Perhaps it would be best to ask such forest monks.

example 1
example 2

(The images are too big to post here directly)

[binocular]

[The devata:]
A person ruthless & grasping,
smeared like a nursing diaper:
/.../

"Smeared like a nursing diaper" -- how capital!

[paul]

The exhortation to go to the foot of a tree which precedes many sutta meditation instructions I think means to begin with wilderness as a meditation subject; I think it's an indispensable starting point and can be a stand-alone meditation subject:

"[The Buddha:] "Yes, Ananda, you heard that correctly, learned it correctly, attended to it correctly, remembered it correctly. Now, as well as before, I remain fully in a dwelling of emptiness. Just as this palace of Migara's mother is empty of elephants, cattle, & mares, empty of gold & silver, empty of assemblies of women & men, and there is only this non-emptiness — the singleness based on the community of monks; even so, Ananda, a monk — not attending to the perception[1] of village, not attending to the perception of human being — attends to the singleness based on the perception of wilderness. His mind takes pleasure, finds satisfaction, settles, & indulges in its perception of wilderness.

"He discerns that 'Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of village are not present. Whatever disturbances that would exist based on the perception of human being are not present."---MN 121