If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

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Roz
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If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Roz » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:02 am

Hello friends

If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell? Or will I go to heaven or be given another chance to get it right as a human being due to my good intentions?

Thank you

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CedarTree
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by CedarTree » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:37 am

Karma is way way way way way to massive, complex, and interwoven to give you a possible answer for this.

The teachings are not hidden. Four noble truths, eight fold path. Practice, practice hard.


Practice, Practice, Practice


santa100
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by santa100 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:37 am

A few suttas to keep in mind:
AN 2.23 wrote:Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata.”
And
AN 4.3 wrote:For a hundred thousand and thirty-six
nirabbudas, plus five abbudas,
the slanderer of noble ones goes to hell,
having defamed them with evil speech and mind.

Roz
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Roz » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:00 am

santa100 wrote:AN 4.3"
Whoa! That is scary, brother. Fortunately I am not without investigating and scrutinizing and I did not speak praise of one who deserves dispraise. I having investigated and scrutinized, speak dispraise of one who deserves dispraise. Possessing these four qualities, the wise, competent, good person preserves himself unmaimed and uninjured; he is blameless and beyond reproach by the wise; and he generates much merit.
CedarTree wrote:The teachings are not hidden. Four noble truths, eight fold path. Practice, practice hard.
Thanks. It sounds like you are saying practice is more important than belief. I read the four noble truth. I thought I understood them expect for birth & death is suffering. If I cannot remember or know my birth & death, how can they be suffering? Also, if life is suffering, how can I find peace in life?

:thanks:

Caodemarte
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:10 am

santa100 wrote:A few suttas to keep in mind:
AN 2.23 wrote:Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata.”
And
AN 4.3 wrote:For a hundred thousand and thirty-six
nirabbudas, plus five abbudas,
the slanderer of noble ones goes to hell,
having defamed them with evil speech and mind.
Note that slander and distortion require intention and are deliberate acts. If your intention is malicious that is one thing. If you are operating with good faith there are no penalties for misunderstanding imposed by a vengeful God. In fact, it is a good idea to always remember, with appropriate humility, that you may misunderstand and are not omniscient.

Caodemarte
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:20 am

santa100 wrote:A few suttas to keep in mind:
AN 2.23 wrote:Monks, these two slander the Tathagata. Which two? He who explains what was not said or spoken by the Tathagata as said or spoken by the Tathagata. And he who explains what was said or spoken by the Tathagata as not said or spoken by the Tathagata. These are two who slander the Tathagata.”
And
AN 4.3 wrote:For a hundred thousand and thirty-six
nirabbudas, plus five abbudas,
the slanderer of noble ones goes to hell,
having defamed them with evil speech and mind.
Please note that deliberate distortion and slander require a malicious intention. Mere misunderstanding is to be expected. In fact, you should always keep in mind, with the appropriate humility, that you may have misunderstood and be tolerant of other well intentioned views.

santa100
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by santa100 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:59 am

Caodemarte wrote:Please note that deliberate distortion and slander require a malicious intention. Mere misunderstanding is to be expected. In fact, you should always keep in mind, with the appropriate humility, that you may have misunderstood and be tolerant of other well intentioned views.
And where exactly in AN 2.23 do you see the Buddha mentioned "deliberate distortion" or "slander require a malicious intention" in order to back up your claim that: "If you are operating with good faith there are no penalties for misunderstanding"? If there's no proof beyond the shadow of the doubt to back up that claim, I'd recommend to be very careful in claiming anything as being said by the Buddha while He actually did not, or not said by the Buddha while He actually did, whether you do or do NOT have a malicious intention.

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Maitri
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Maitri » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:23 am

Roz wrote: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell? Or will I go to heaven or be given another chance to get it right as a human being due to my good intentions?
If that's the case, then a lot of people on Pinterest are going straight to Avici. I've seen numerous false quotes, pseudo- quotes, semi-true quotes and badly translated quotes from the Buddha (an others sources people think is the Buddha) all over social media. So many people totally mis-understand Buddhism from the badly attributed sources; it's quite sad.

If you are in doubt of your interpretation, you can always come here to see if others agree with you or if they think you are way off the mark. Or speak with a teacher or other Sangha member you trust to get good feedback. I would not let this fear keep you from reading the Suttas. I feel the Buddha is rather direct and plain spoken for the most part.
"Upon a heap of rubbish in the road-side ditch blooms a lotus, fragrant and pleasing.
Even so, on the rubbish heap of blinded mortals the disciple of the Supremely Enlightened One shines resplendent in wisdom." Dhammapada: Pupphavagga

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/

santa100
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by santa100 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:41 am

Which makes one thinks that "blind turtle sticking its neck through the yoke" simile might not be too far-fetched after all..

Roz
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Roz » Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:26 am

santa100 wrote:Which makes one thinks that "blind turtle sticking its neck through the yoke" simile might not be too far-fetched after all..
Whoa, brother. A blind turtle! There are two of them! I arrowed back to 47. Yoke with a Hole (1). It said:
Sooner, I say, would that blind turtle, coming to the surface once every hundred years, insert its neck into that yoke with a single hole than the fool who has gone once to the nether world would regain the human state. For what reason? Because here, bhikkhus, there is no conduct guided by the Dhamma, no righteous conduct, no wholesome activity, no meritorious activity. Here there prevails mutual devouring, the devouring of the weak. For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, they have not seen the Four Noble Truths. What four? The noble truth of suffering … the noble truth of the way leading to the cessation of suffering.

https://suttacentral.net/en/sn56.47
To have the human state, there is conduct guided by the Dhamma, righteous conduct, wholesome activity, meritorious activity, no mutual devouring & no devouring of the weak. What is going to happen to all of the people in the world not doing this? This is the same as my 1st post at this chatsite, where I said how can Western people be the rebirth of good karma when the whole economic basis of our Western society is based in exploitation of the weak & mutual devouring; like colonialism, slavery, imperialism, capitalism & predatory finance. It is difficult to believe 7 billion people are born on earth because of good karma when most people have greedy, uncompassionate & uncaring inclinations. I think this teaching of the two blind turtles is psychological or metaphorical; like when violent people are called "animals". The blind turtles might be the misinterpreters of scriptures.

:shock:

justindesilva
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by justindesilva » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:31 am

Roz wrote:Hello friends

If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell? Or will I go to heaven or be given another chance to get it right as a human being due to my good intentions?

Thank you
As described in AN , slandering Buddha arises out of deliberate intention. The story of Chinci Manavika who came disguised as a pregnant woman to blame Lord Buddha is an example.
Mis understanding the sutta often can be realised by reading many other sutta which amounts to many thousands. Further more the person enthusiastic in understanding the damma ( samma ditthi) will not give up and follow effort (samma vayama) and will benefit by observing the minimum requirement which is Panca sila.

Caodemarte
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by Caodemarte » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:18 pm

justindesilva wrote: ...As described in AN , slandering Buddha arises out of deliberate intention. The story of Chinci Manavika who came disguised as a pregnant woman to blame Lord Buddha is an example.
Mis understanding the sutta often can be realised by reading many other sutta which amounts to many thousands. Further more the person enthusiastic in understanding the damma ( samma ditthi) will not give up and follow effort (samma vayama) and will benefit by observing the minimum requirement which is Panca sila.
Quite right. And the meaning of slander and distortion in this context, the quoted passages, clearly contain intention (right in the quoted passages and throughout the canon). You can't be guilty of either without intending to do so. A basic claimed differentiation of Buddhism from early Vedic Hinduism made by the early Weatern scholars is precisely that intention carries the moral freight in Buddhism see seSee the Mindless, ritual actions (adherence to the word) do not have moral weight; the moral consequences come from intent to harm or benefit (adherence to the spirit). Ritual purity without moral purity is pointless at best in Buddhism.

So what is right intention in Pali canon Buddhism?
"(Samma Sankappa)

The second factor of the path is called in Pali samma sankappa, which we will translate as "right intention." The term is sometimes translated as "right thought," a rendering that can be accepted if we add the proviso that in the present context the word "thought" refers specifically to the purposive or conative aspect of mental activity, the cognitive aspect being covered by the first factor, right view. It would be artificial, however, to insist too strongly on the division between these two functions. From the Buddhist perspective, the cognitive and purposive sides of the mind do not remain isolated in separate compartments but intertwine and interact in close correlation. Emotional predilections influence views, and views determine predilections. Thus a penetrating view of the nature of existence, gained through deep reflection and validated through investigation, brings with it a restructuring of values which sets the mind moving towards goals commensurate with the new vision. The application of mind needed to achieve those goals is what is meant by right intention."
Bikkhu Bodhi in "The Noble Eightfold Path."

To address the OP:
We do the best we can with what we have. Don't threaten other people with hell because they believe differently from you. Don't worry you will go to hell if you misunderstand or don't understand something you simply don't understand. Just try to practice the best you can and you will be in tune with Buddhism. Don't go nuts because you don't speak the original language of the Buddha and don't know every word of the various canons. Focus on the essence, avoid fanaticism and literalism. If you make a mistake, correct it. Don't compound it.

santa100
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by santa100 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 2:52 pm

Roz wrote:To have the human state, there is conduct guided by the Dhamma, righteous conduct, wholesome activity, meritorious activity, no mutual devouring & no devouring of the weak. What is going to happen to all of the people in the world not doing this? This is the same as my 1st post at this chatsite, where I said how can Western people be the rebirth of good karma when the whole economic basis of our Western society is based in exploitation of the weak & mutual devouring; like colonialism, slavery, imperialism, capitalism & predatory finance. It is difficult to believe 7 billion people are born on earth because of good karma when most people have greedy, uncompassionate & uncaring inclinations. I think this teaching of the two blind turtles is psychological or metaphorical; like when violent people are called "animals". The blind turtles might be the misinterpreters of scriptures.
I'd be very careful before jumping to conclusion that the blind turtle simile is fake. I set a up a little mathematical analysis a while back which can help addressing your inquiry about the seemingly impossible odds of being reborn as humans. By the way, don't take this as some sort of scare tactic and stuff, because it's not. It's simply info. as presented in the Pali Canon.

2600htz
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Re: If I study but misinterpret the scriptures, will I be reborn in hell?

Post by 2600htz » Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:37 pm

Hello:

Well, it depends on the amount and degree of misinterpretation :jumping:

Regards.

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