Rebirth

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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CedarTree
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Rebirth

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jul 10, 2017 8:01 pm

I am familiar with the Theravada view on Rebirth and also the Zen portrayal.

As someone that has pursued strong meditation based traditions such as Thai Forest and Antai-ji - Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery I have been able to experience a lot of the teachings and or at least understand them in both a logical way and experiential way.

Rebirth however has been a hard one for me. Not for disbelief but in achieving a level of experience and understanding in which it fits in smoothly into how I have come to understand the teachings both through study and experience.

I am hoping those knowledgeable can explain how it is talked about in their school and also experiences and or things that have helped deepen their understanding on this teaching.

Thank you friends.

:buddha1:


Practice, Practice, Practice


Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:19 pm

I like your name Cedar Tree. It's a tough one sometimes trying to get a grip on all the complex themes in meditation. Rebirth is a big one. Alot of people don't really give it much thought in their day to day world because there is really no reason to.
I think of rebirth the same way I think of past experience in my present life. I remember being young, cruising around in my hot cars and having lots of fun. It is just a memory now. I know what I did back then and I have the memories and I also see it is all in the past.
Even though it is in the past it does have some effect on my current life. I still go to car shows, talk about the old days and remember how much fun life was.
Even though the past can never be retrieved it still conditions us to some degree. If you look around at the world and the people in it, there is an incredible array of differences apparent with people. Most parents see signs that their children have their own personality at a fairly young age.
So don't worry about all the hard to do stuff.
We are lucky with the internet. If you hunt around there are lots of interesting things to investigate. That's what I find fun to do

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Aloka
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Aloka » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:33 pm

Johnnymac wrote: Rebirth is a big one. Alot of people don't really give it much thought in their day to day world because there is really no reason to.
I think of rebirth the same way I think of past experience in my present life. I remember being young, cruising around in my hot cars and having lots of fun. It is just a memory now. I know what I did back then and I have the memories and I also see it is all in the past.
Even though it is in the past it does have some effect on my current life. I still go to car shows, talk about the old days and remember how much fun life was.
Even though the past can never be retrieved it still conditions us to some degree.
:goodpost:

from Ajahn Sumedho in his book "Direct Realisation:
I am only interested in rebirth as something that you can witness with the mind. You can talk about a previous life or the next life, but then you are just dealing with speculation. The emphasis in the teaching though is always on the here and now rather than speculating about the past or imagining the future.

When you understand what the Buddha was really teaching, then rebirth in those terms is really the process of becoming which is a mental process. You are becoming something all the time.

In heedlessness, when you are not being mindful, but just following habit and its process of becoming something, you mentally slip into role after role. For example becoming a father and a teacher, and something else and then something else, according to what you are attaching to and absorbing into on the sensual plane.

http://www.amaravati.org/dhamma-books/a ... alization/
:anjali:

JohnK
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Re: Rebirth

Post by JohnK » Mon Jul 10, 2017 10:52 pm

From Buddhadasa Bhikkhu, Under the Bodhi Tree, pp. 63-64:
Rebirth in Buddhism, in Dhamma language, is the reappearance of the concept of self. With each clinging to self there is a new birth or "rebirth." In other words, with each spin of dependent co-arising there is a new birth (just as there are new moments of contact, feeling, craving, and so on). Each occurrence of dependent co-arising is a new birth of the illusive self...In this language, rebirth is the concept of "I" being reborn in mind."
"...the practice is essentially a practice, and not a theory to be idly discussed...right view leaves unanswered many questions about the cosmos and the self, and directs your attention to what needs to be done to escape from the ravages of suffering." Thanissaro Bhikkhu, On The Path.

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CedarTree
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Re: Rebirth

Post by CedarTree » Mon Jul 10, 2017 11:41 pm

Thanks guys,

I would say this is actually where I am now in my practice.

The only tough thing is I am trying not to downplay the Buddhas teaching and the Buddha taught about past and future lives that in a "sense" belong to the individual.

I am having a hard time understanding how after this body dies in this life time what is reborn into the next (I know you all will say karma) but how does that have anything to do with me like how the karma now has to do with this entity that it has conditioned.

There is a subtlety in my question here that I am not doing a very good job articulating lol


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Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:31 am

CedarTree.
There are a lot of things you will never understand.
Everybody thinks about death.
I always say to myself when death is lurking_look John you are only going to be on this rock for a short time if there is something you have to do get on it. Do not regret anything. Don't take the easy route.
Get interested in something worthwhile.

Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:42 am

Dear Aloka
That explanation you posted below is nonsense.
I hope your testing
Just read the first 6 words to yourself 3 or 4 times

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CedarTree
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Re: Rebirth

Post by CedarTree » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:05 am

Johnnymac wrote:CedarTree.
There are a lot of things you will never understand.
Everybody thinks about death.
I always say to myself when death is lurking_look John you are only going to be on this rock for a short time if there is something you have to do get on it. Do not regret anything. Don't take the easy route.
Get interested in something worthwhile.
Johnnymac, that is what I am doing Lol

and it is a part of the Buddhas teaching and as such I have an earnest intent and drive to understand this dimension of it. As the other facets of his teaching have proven so successful and on point.

I appreciate the mind set though of where you were posting :)


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Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:23 am

CedarTree.
Maybe we will meet up in the forest someday.
Understanding the doctrine of rebirth is stream-entrant territory.

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Aloka
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:27 am

Johnnymac wrote:Dear Aloka
That explanation you posted below is nonsense.
I hope your testing
Just read the first 6 words to yourself 3 or 4 times

How rude of you. I've no idea what you're talking about and yet you obviously think you're an expert....

Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:41 am

My apologies Aloka I thought you wanted my feedback on what you posted

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Aloka
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Aloka » Tue Jul 11, 2017 1:47 am

Johnnymac wrote:My apologies Aloka I thought you wanted my feedback on what you posted
My post was for Cedar Tree - and my quote was from Ajahn Sumedho who is a highly respected teacher in the Theravada Thai Forest Tradition.

.

Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:09 am

My ability to communicate sure needs work. Trying to calm down after a very intense year. Intolerance seems to be another problem area for me. I am not sure which direction to go in.
Anyway I don't mean to be disrespectful. I was trying to get some information from this website to verify some problems I was having with my meditation and I actually got the help I was looking for. There are a lot of interesting people with some serious knowledge and understanding of all things Buddhist..
I actually don't think I am qualified to be on these forums.
I am still wrapped up in my opinion of my greatness.
Coming from a combat background I almost always slip into combat mode when I shouldn't. So I beg your forgiveness and I will endeavour to smooth out my action.

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CedarTree
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Re: Rebirth

Post by CedarTree » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:15 am

Johnnymac wrote:My ability to communicate sure needs work. Trying to calm down after a very intense year. Intolerance seems to be another problem area for me. I am not sure which direction to go in.
Anyway I don't mean to be disrespectful. I was trying to get some information from this website to verify some problems I was having with my meditation and I actually got the help I was looking for. There are a lot of interesting people with some serious knowledge and understanding of all things Buddhist..
I actually don't think I am qualified to be on these forums.
I am still wrapped up in my opinion of my greatness.
Coming from a combat background I almost always slip into combat mode when I shouldn't. So I beg your forgiveness and I will endeavour to smooth out my action.
Johnny I admire you for being able to not go on the defensive and genuinely apologize for how your posts were coming off to people.

That takes character. And I think is a lesson we can all learn in to not be quick to jump to thinking we "Understand exactly what is being said and thought and that it is very small lol"

Keep on posting and sharing and yes I'd like to meet up in a forest somewhere hah, hopefully both as arahants ;)


Practice, Practice, Practice


Johnnymac
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Re: Rebirth

Post by Johnnymac » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:44 am

Thanks CedarTree.
I have to cool my jets. I have been doing this stuff for 33 years and I have never really had anyone to talk with about anything other than my teacher.
Loneliness gets the better of me.

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