I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:54 pm

Aloka wrote:
BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it. :bow:

Since I first joined DW I've seen various claims to different levels on the path and I can't help but wonder why people feel the need to do that. In my opinion, if one is bursting to tell others about one's practice, its best to seek out a good meditation teacher at a Monastery or Buddhist centre and discuss it face-to-face with them, rather than speculate with strangers on the internet.

Daily life goes on regardless however, the bins still have to be emptied and the toilet cleaned. One doesn't just float away on a pink cloud because one has had a few "experiences".

:)
Thank you for this. The reason I posted it was not excitment to share, but because I don't want to be ignorant. If I am not a streamenterer than I am not. Thinking I am is wrong view. It would be no different than being one of those guys on youtube who claims to have achieved enlightenment after one retreat and starts selling things. I am posting this to avoid doing what so many have done in the past. I am approaching this with humility, and open heart, and a questioning mind. :hug:

I cannot join a monastary, I have a family who depends on me. My work schedule is very prohibitive towards retreats and teachers. The only looking glasses I have are the suttas and DW. I wish to utilize both to maximum effect. Over the last year the Dhamma has become all there is for me, hand in hand with my partner. Even surpassing him. I couldn't care less what others think of my practice. Only that I am doing it to the utmost. :anjali:

binocular
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by binocular » Wed Jun 07, 2017 5:12 pm

BasementBuddhist wrote:Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it.
Sometimes, such as after a good meal, or when the weather is fine, one can feel like one is having a profound spiritual insight or feels certain about some deep philosophical matter. But in those cases, it's just the effect of the good meal or the good weather, or some other mundane pleasurable experience. :toast:

It is commendable that you didn't jump on the I-am-enlightened waggon, and are instead questioning your experience.
My suggestion is to give things time. If an insight occurs to you over and over again, regardless of good meals and good weather, and if the insight is such that you can readily act on it, then there's probably something to it.
Every person we save is one less zombie to fight. -- World War Z

santa100
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by santa100 » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:06 pm

BasementBuddhist wrote: If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it.

When in doubt, refer to the suttas like AN 10.92 and others.

2600htz
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by 2600htz » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:42 pm

Hello:

The easiest way to know is knowing what u meant by "experiencing the first glimpse of nibbana".
A stream enterer sees some very deep specific things (regarding dependent origination), but its not something u would discuss in a public forum.

Regards.

Lonely upasaka
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Lonely upasaka » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:15 pm

Some time ago I thought I was achieved stream-entry but was not quite sure and then in a nervous situation, I lied during my speech about Dhamma to hide the fact that I forgot something. I never was so frustrated in my adult life.
Just keep practicing! Strive to achieve ideal qualities of the stream-entry so that when you reflect on them you will be 100% sure.
Read suttas in SN 25 and SN 55, SN 12.41.
Impermanent are all formations;
Their nature is to arise and vanish.
Having arisen, they cease:
Their appeasement is blissful.

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:44 pm

I will make a general comment on Attainment of Stream Entry as i understand it but this is not meant to make a statement regarding the state of anybody in particular. Another thing is that people should be reluctant to argue for or against other people's attainments so they don't accidentally revile a Noble Person, that is my own personal opinion.

I used to think that one has to experience full blown cessation of Aggregates to be called a Sotapanna however i have read some Suttas where people are seemingly not aware of being Ariya, there are several Suttas like this in the SN collection on Sotapatti.

As i understand it and my understanding may not be correct as i have not studied it deeply for it has not been important to me, it seems that Suttas do not differentiate between the state of a Sotapanna and a Cula-Sotapanna which is described in Abhidhamma afaik. With this in mind i am still inclined to think based on my personal experience and understanding of the Dhamma that a Sotapanna (not Cula-Sotapanna) is one who has attained vision and knowledge of the Unmade Element, Full cessation of the Aggregates, Ultimate Peace, The Highest Happiness, Nibbana.

As i see it a Sotapanna will have zero doubt about his attainment and will not need the slightest confirmation, he might tell someone but he will not ask whether or not he has attained it and what his attainment was in general unless he had no context or intellectual knowledge of the Dhamma perhaps, if he did ask it would be out of humility or a similar/ulterior motive and not because he is not sure about his attainment. I can conceive of some scenarios where one could be making inquiries, it is not stated as impossible, ie if one was taught basic practise and trained dilligently without any study i could see one genuily asking a teacher about the experience or something like this but i dont want to speculate much.

Furthermore even if his teacher, mother and father and all of contemporary scholars were to tell him that he is wrong he would not have doubt even tho he might experience stress because of it and he might even want to believe his teacher but he will be unable to change his mind in regards to his attainment and his knowledge of attainment will be unshaken. However again i am not sure if the world could convince him that he was not Ariya, as it is not stated as impossible by the Tathagata, perhaps it is possible in some circumstance but not in general i think and less likely if he is learned in the Dhamma i would think. What is know for sure is that with his attainment he will never doubt the validity and factuality of the Dhamma because it is internalized, verified and is therefore real to him.

Another thing is that i would advice reading Mahasi Sayadaw's treatises on Nibbana and see if one's experience resonates, if however Mahasi Sayadaw is not held by one to be Authority on the matter then this will probably be of less use.

Regardng the Fetters, even before attaining Stream-Entry one might have extreme conviction in the Dhamma, perhaps even clear intellectual understanding regarding ultimate non-existence of conventional objects and one's body, insight into conditioned nature of behavior and uselessness of rites and rituals. One may be firmly set in precepts, have Intense faith and conviction basically, as i see it there is probably no reaching Stream Entry without going thru this stage.

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:32 am

I want to thank all of you for your replies in this matter. I no longer believe I have achieved stream-entry, though I suspect I'm pretty close. You are a good sangha, for questioning and challenging me. I appreciate it. Much respect and metta to you all, friends.
:heart: :bow:

hermitwin
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by hermitwin » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:49 am

the state of stream entry means that there is no more back-sliding. it means that you have crossed the stream,there is not turning back. if you havent see any significant change in your behaviour and thoughts, i doubt you have achieved it.

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:51 am

I have seen vast changes in my behavior. To steal a quote from the christian Bible, it is "As far as the east is from the west".

Lamahewage
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Lamahewage » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:26 am

according to pali canon there is no way to attain sothapanna stage by meditating.read sabbasawa sutta where it says dassanena pahathabba for sothapanna stage.meditation needs to go through sakadaagami to arahanth.

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:28 am

Lamahewage wrote:according to pali canon there is no way to attain sothapanna stage by meditating.read sabbasawa sutta where it says dassanena pahathabba for sothapanna stage.meditation needs to go through sakadaagami to arahanth.
Thank you, friend. I am actually reading as we speak. I no longer believe I am a sotapanna. I hope the thread can provide understandings for future Buddhists.

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Mkoll
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Mkoll » Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:33 am

I think this is the first "I am a Noble One" thread I've seen here where the OP has actually re-examined their minds and backed down on their claims
instead of doubling down, stubbornly questioning, or disappearing. Kudos.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Luca123
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Luca123 » Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:18 am

BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it. :bow:
I would ask you if you have any flashbacks of past lives. AFAIK most people who have achieved stream entry have such flashbacks
then you should check and double check if such flashbacks are real
If not, then you maybe should consider that you have maybe deluded yourself
Sorry for saying this

chownah
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by chownah » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:48 pm

Luca123 wrote:
BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it. :bow:
I would ask you if you have any flashbacks of past lives. AFAIK most people who have achieved stream entry have such flashbacks
then you should check and double check if such flashbacks are real
If not, then you maybe should consider that you have maybe deluded yourself
Sorry for saying this
Very interesting idea that most streamenterers have such flashbacks. Where did you hear of this? I have never heard anyone mention this before but I'll have to admit that I don't always pay close attention to details.
chownah

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:54 pm

I also want to say that one wont find scriptural support for the past-life-flashbacks in this context so i think you have been misled.

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