I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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BasementBuddhist
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I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:08 am

I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it. :bow:

Derek
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Derek » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:31 am

Which definition of stream-entry are you using?

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:35 am

Derek wrote:Which definition of stream-entry are you using?
One who has experienced their first glimpse of Nibbana and abandoned the first three fetters:

1)Self-view

2)Clinging to rites and rituals

3)Skeptical doubt

Garrib
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Garrib » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:04 am

Hi friend,

I certainly hope you are correct - and if for whatever reason you turn out to be mistaken, I hope you do indeed attain stream entry within this life!! and if that doesn't happen, then I hope you attain stream entry as soon as possible and do not meet with any downfalls or wretched conditions.

Can I ask you this: Was there a single moment of experience that made you think that you had broken through? If so, what was that like? If not, on what basis do you make this claim? (I am genuinely interested, so please don't read into my line of questioning - the Buddha himself said that a stream enterer could declare him or herself to be done with the lower realms, and I fully believe it is a possibility for a dedicated practitioner to attain this.) Because it seems to me that many of us have a certain amount of faith in the three jewels, and we (at least logically) can dispense with the notion of a permanent self, and we believe that the genuine cultivation of the path itself and not any ritualism, will take us to the goal. So is it just a matter of this faith being so strong as to be unshakeable?

The Suttas also speak about spotless and pure morality that is praised by the Noble ones, right? Do you see this quality in yourself?

Thanks in advance for the opportunity to dialogue!

Respectfully,

Brad

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:17 am

Garrib wrote:Hi friend,

I certainly hope you are correct - and if for whatever reason you turn out to be mistaken, I hope you do indeed attain stream entry within this life!! and if that doesn't happen, then I hope you attain stream entry as soon as possible and do not meet with any downfalls or wretched conditions.

Can I ask you this: Was there a single moment of experience that made you think that you had broken through? If so, what was that like? If not, on what basis do you make this claim? (I am genuinely interested, so please don't read into my line of questioning - the Buddha himself said that a stream enterer could declare him or herself to be done with the lower realms, and I fully believe it is a possibility for a dedicated practitioner to attain this.) Because it seems to me that many of us have a certain amount of faith in the three jewels, and we (at least logically) can dispense with the notion of a permanent self, and we believe that the genuine cultivation of the path itself and not any ritualism, will take us to the goal. So is it just a matter of this faith being so strong as to be unshakeable?

The Suttas also speak about spotless and pure morality that is praised by the Noble ones, right? Do you see this quality in yourself?

Thanks in advance for the opportunity to dialogue!

Respectfully,

Brad
It was more like several moments of time, based on what I was directly experiencing, where I felt I had just made a profound discovery. Like when I first understood not-self and how it was connected to dependent-origination. A profound moment of knowing sunk in. Buddhism being about discovery and not ritual was what drew me to it initially, and the moment I realized this, again, this profound sense of knowing. The last thing to click into place for me as far as stream-entry goes, was Losing doubt in the Buddha, Sangha, and Dhamma. To fully realize the beauty of the Buddha and his message was humbling and astonishing. A moment more brilliant than all other moments. I had truly never felt anything like it.

As for your additional question, it is more of this idea that doubt in the Buddha, his Dhamma, and his Sangha simply does not arise in oneself at all. How could I doubt the Buddha? How could I doubt his Dhamma? How could I doubt the Sangha? I know them all for what they are.

Edit: Again I wish to state that I have not started this topic for any selfish reason. Or to GET anything. In fact, I have already gotten a PM from a member that has led to doubt about me becoming a stream-enterer at all. I simply wish to know, discuss, and share my own experiences. To learn. It is up to all others to decide and to answer how they will

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:28 am

No one can or should confirm it for you. Without the ability to read minds, another person could only make an intelligent guess that maybe it is so, based on your reports of your meditation experiences, and observing your conduct after living with you for a long time.

The last time that I was staying at Mahāsi Yeikthā, there was an Indian bhikkhu practising there with me and other foreign meditators. We used to eat at the same table, and the two of us were usually the last to finish the meal. On one hot day, I finished my meal, walked slowly back to my accommodation block (a good distance), washed out my robes, washed the floor of the corridor outside my room, and looked out of the window to see the Indian monk returning from the dining hall. He practised in this way for seven months, doing all daily activities extremely mindfully. He was usually the first in the meditation room in the morning (before 4:00 am), and the last to leave (after 10:00 pm). From his reports to the meditation instructor, I guessed from my theoretical knowledge that he might have attained to Stream-winning, and I asked our meditation instructor about this. He neither confirmed nor denied it.

In Mahāsi Yeikthā, the meditation instructors who think that students have made good progress, let them listen to a discourse on the Progress of Insight before leaving the meditation centre, so that they can assess their own progress.

Note that insight into not-self occurs quite early in the progress of insight. By the relatively early stage of Purification by Overcoming Doubt the insight will be very clear, and one's faith in the Buddha will be unshakeable. One will become a committed Buddhist.
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:34 am

Thank you Bhikkhu! I will read what you have suggested contemplate. :anjali:

binocular
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by binocular » Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:34 am

BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it.
If you're not sure whether you have an attainment or not, then you don't have that attainment.

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Aloka
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Aloka » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:03 am

BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it. :bow:

Since I first joined DW I've seen various claims to different levels on the path and I can't help but wonder why people feel the need to do that. In my opinion, if one is bursting to tell others about one's practice, its best to seek out a good meditation teacher at a Monastery or Buddhist centre and discuss it face-to-face with them, rather than speculate with strangers on the internet.

Daily life goes on regardless however, the bins still have to be emptied and the toilet cleaned. One doesn't just float away on a pink cloud because one has had a few "experiences".

:)

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JamesTheGiant
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by JamesTheGiant » Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:42 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Note that insight into not-self occurs quite early in the progress of insight. By the relatively early stage of Purification by Overcoming Doubt the insight will be very clear, and one's faith in the Buddha will be unshakeable. One will become a committed Buddhist.
Thankyou so much for that point and the direct link, I had not specifically seen that mentioned before. That is the most useful bit of information I've read for a long time, and answers questions I had about people who had seen non-self, and who then believed themselves to be stream enterers, including myself at one time!
Thanks. :anjali:

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Bundokji
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Bundokji » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:09 am

Insight is usually portrayed as an extraordinary moment (some call it "aha" moment), and it is usually perceived as a step towards a desirable direction.

Imagine in the coming few days, you encounter a most ordinary situation which shows that you did not achieve anything and that you are still full of s'''', this situation or knowledge would not be taken so seriously and you would less likely to be inclined to give it too much value and share it with others. Well, this is usually what a real insight is.

A real insight is more likely to disappoint than to please. All in my opinion.
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

pyluyten
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by pyluyten » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:17 am

Aloka wrote: Daily life goes on regardless however, the bins still have to be emptied and the toilet cleaned. One doesn't just float away on a pink cloud because one has had a few "experiences".
unless washing toilets becomes the experience, so, most of us still have a long way to go :rofl:

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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:30 am

BasementBuddhist wrote:...first glimpse of Nibbana...
Could you elaborate a little on that experience?
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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:47 pm

binocular wrote:
BasementBuddhist wrote:I say this not to brag, or for accolades, or for disciples, or to be elevated, or to seem superior, or to set myself apart. I say this because it is what the mind believes, and because I wish to discuss it to find truth in it, or to find a lack of truth. If I am not a sotapanna it would be very harmful for practice to go on believing it. If I am, it is of little relevance other than that I might help other people reach stream-entry.

Please, argue against my achievement! Tell me all the reasons I am wrong. I need it.
If you're not sure whether you have an attainment or not, then you don't have that attainment.

Thank you for pointing this out. It is probably so. :anjali:

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BasementBuddhist
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Re: I believe I have achieved stream-entry.

Post by BasementBuddhist » Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:49 pm

Spiny Norman wrote:
BasementBuddhist wrote:...first glimpse of Nibbana...
Could you elaborate a little on that experience?

Not really. I don't really have any other words to describe it. I guess I could go with, I felt in my heart that I was seeing the world exactly as it was. But that is only part of it.

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