Long life spans

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Luca123
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Long life spans

Post by Luca123 » Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:57 pm

cappuccino wrote:
Luca123 wrote:
robertk wrote:
25. ‘And in that time of the people with an eighty thousand-year life-span
is there anyone here predicting that in the past or in the future people will or have lived for 80000 years? And I am getting it right?
In some far distant age. Of which the only record is memory of…
In some far distant age in the past?
Is there any idea how far?
Humans are walking on this planet since 100000 years ago
I mean homo sapiens sapiens

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cappuccino
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Re: Long life spans

Post by cappuccino » Thu Jun 01, 2017 10:05 pm

Luca123 wrote:In some far distant age in the past?
Is there any idea how far?
Possibly we were inhabiting this planet as spirits without physical bodies.
A hundred million years ago.

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DNS
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Re: Long life spans

Post by DNS » Fri Jun 02, 2017 2:38 am

Luca123 wrote:To be noted that human beings are genetically designed not to live much over 120
True, at the moment. I wrote those things (stories of people living 80,000 years or more) off as mythology and hagiography, but now I see and hear some scholars, historians, scientists suggesting that it could happen in the not too distant future.

Sapiens might transform into some different species through the use of scientific advances, cyborg technology, etc. In the future virtually every organ that goes bad might get replaced with a type of 'bionic' organ, from the liver, pancreas, bladder, heart, etc. (some of these already exist in artificial form). And computer chips will be installed in our bodies and even our brains allowing for memories to be downloaded where we (humans) become increasingly robotic but possibly still somewhat biological too. In that future time, it could be possible that humans would live well past 1,000 years or even much longer.

The historian Yuval Harari calls it "A-mortal" meaning virtually immortal. Such a being is immortal, however if a bus or truck runs you over, then you're still dead, so therefore A-mortal.

Luca123
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Luca123 » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:53 am

cappuccino wrote:
Luca123 wrote:In some far distant age in the past?
Is there any idea how far?
Possibly we were inhabiting this planet as spirits without physical bodies.
A hundred million years ago.
Hi
is this a story or is there a shred of evidence behing it

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cappuccino
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Re: Long life spans

Post by cappuccino » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:43 pm

Luca123 wrote:is this a story or is there a shred of evidence
A story… an echo of truth.

Luca123
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Luca123 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:09 am

cappuccino wrote:
Luca123 wrote:is this a story or is there a shred of evidence
A story… an echo of truth.
How do you know?

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cappuccino
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Re: Long life spans

Post by cappuccino » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:21 pm

Luca123 wrote:How do you know?
I merely guess.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Jun 03, 2017 4:19 pm

Since the current human life-span is only about 80-100 years, it makes no sense to waste A Precious Human Rebirth discussing such topics.

There are many things in the Pāḷi texts and Commentaries that could not be verifiable without psychic powers, and others that may be myths.

Take whatever is acceptable to you and work with it. Finding fault wherever you can is of no benefit. If you have no genuine interest in learning about Theravāda Buddhism, don't waste your time here.

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Luca123
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Luca123 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:01 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Since the current human life-span is only about 80-100 years, it makes no sense to waste A Precious Human Rebirth discussing such topics.

There are many things in the Pāḷi texts and Commentaries that could not be verifiable without psychic powers, and others that may be myths.

Take whatever is acceptable to you and work with it. Finding fault wherever you can is of no benefit. If you have no genuine interest in learning about Theravāda Buddhism, don't waste your time here.

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It is PRECISELY as I think life is precious that I take time to analyze critically what I read before embracing any religion
I think everbody should do the same
Otherwise we may risk spending years following a particular teaching and then discover that it is a myth when it is too late

If many things are myths in the commentaries how can we know what is myth and what is not?

santa100
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Re: Long life spans

Post by santa100 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:03 pm

Set aside those things that are yet to be verified and focus on those that CAN be verified in the here and now. And there're tons of things in Buddhism that can be verified in the here and now: the benefits of observing the precepts, of practicing the brahmaviharas, contemplation on the 3 marks, 4NT, 8FNP, etc. Even the law of kamma can be verified to certain extent. Walk into a bar and punch that big bouncer guy in his face, and you'll sure receive the immediate kamma that follows. Same thing for constantly lying, saying harsh or abusive words to other people around you, and you sure will see what kind of kamma you'll get back. On the other hand, practicing compassion, charity, and other virtues and notice the kind of reaction other people have toward you. Observe the precept, practice meditation, and at a minimal, notice the sense of ease and peace happening to your own mind, etc..

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Circle5
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Circle5 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:13 pm

There exist things that are "biologically immortal": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_immortality

In the vastness of the universe, there can be such a lifeform as a deva or human that is biologically designed in a way to be immortal and live in such conditions that it is impossible to die by accident.

Even if humans from this earth will never become immortal, there is the possibility of beings in the human real (meaning beings that have similar characteristics with humans, similar traits, similar intelligence, similar levels of overall happiness, etc. ) living one another planet or universe to have longer lifespan.

This also can happen for deva lifeforms that experience more happiness, or hell lifeforms that experience less happiness. The possibilities of individual existence are unlimited. But I know Buddha said somewhere that the biggest vastness of physical appearance is among animals. This may mean that more developed beings tend to have similar shape, such as a head, limbs etc. So there might be such forces at play that limit this vastness of individual existence possibilities also in terms of traits or other characteristics in the same way physical shape is limited in a way.

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Re: Long life spans

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Sat Jun 03, 2017 10:17 pm

The Tathagata may have talked about different period of expansion of the Universe, it does not necessarily mean Our planet earth or this Expansion period after the Big Bang.

If i had heard The Tathagata say it i would not have any doubt. As I have not heard it from his lips, it is not impossible that it is somewhat skewed statement, but i think it is likely true as i have no reason to be inclined to doubt it.

However i also dont think it is the most useful thing to think about or a good way to verify the teaching.

Good ways to verify the teaching would be same you would verify any other theory:
a)cross referencing what is known as impossible and what is known as possible, ie putting theory against known legitimate experiements.
b)following instruction given in the teaching and verifying the experienced results vs the expected results

If you are not doing any of the above you are wasting time being skeptical or just lazy, complacent, perhaps it is pleasant to think about the theory and intellectually scrutinizing or poundering and reasoning, likely all of these but it is quite useless. At some point one has to say "ok i have enough evidence to set up a legit experiment", giving it a fair shot and collecting data from results.

It is not like one has to risk anything to undertake some precepts and do an intensive meditation course. It is all free and we are not the church of scientology, nobody will care much if you take or leave it.

The only concern is choosing the right teacher but that takes a certain skill and even for this we have teachings and manuals.

and offtopic
Luca123 wrote: Humans are walking on this planet since 100000 years ago
I mean homo sapiens sapiens
more like 200 000 actually

Luca123
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Re: Long life spans

Post by Luca123 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:21 pm

santa100 wrote: Walk into a bar and punch that big bouncer guy in his face, and you'll sure receive the immediate kamma that follows.
Does not exactly need to believe in kamma to know this :D

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DNS
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Re: Long life spans

Post by DNS » Sun Jun 04, 2017 12:13 am

Luca123 wrote:
santa100 wrote: Walk into a bar and punch that big bouncer guy in his face, and you'll sure receive the immediate kamma that follows.
Does not exactly need to believe in kamma to know this :D
But it happens in numerous other ways too. Someone does something harmful, something immoral, and then something bad happens to them. Someone calls it kamma and another calls it superstition. Anything that has a religious connotation to it and the skeptics dismiss it as superstition. It thereby becomes impossible to convince the skeptic.

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cappuccino
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Re: Long life spans

Post by cappuccino » Sun Jun 04, 2017 3:22 am

You can't convince anyone because there isn't anyone to convince.

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