My action about the 12 dependent origination

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ronir583
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My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by ronir583 » Sun May 07, 2017 10:22 pm

That is why we practice meditation for us to have an insight that this present life is a result of the past.

We are just being fooled and being in the cycle of aeons of time. S what i am now, is because of my past and this moment will become a future in the next moment.

Now, if I do not practice and had no understanding of the 4 noble truths, then this life, that I called my life would be just being in the cycle of these 12 dependent origination. There would be no end to these cycle and this is Dukkha.

I do not want to be in this cycle. There is no way for me to not to end this one. No matter what it takes, I would do the practice even if it cost my life just to be out of this cycle of birth and death.

Nirvana, enlightenment is not of my concern. If it will reach nirvana then it would reach nirvana. If it would reach enlightenment, then it would reach enlightenment.

In a way, no big deal for what is very important for me now, is to practice, apply the 8 noble path, to be out of this cycle of birth and death. :namaste:

justindesilva
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by justindesilva » Mon May 08, 2017 5:31 pm

In order to walk the path we have to realise that the path consist of Dana, seela , and bhavana. Without striving in these 3 areas we will not see where we are heading.But

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retrofuturist
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by retrofuturist » Mon May 08, 2017 10:15 pm

Greetings Ronir,

Unfortunately you have been misled on the purpose of paticcasamuppada.

It is not a tri-temporal model of transmigration.

Rather, it explains how through ignorance, we generate the sankharas that we falsely interpret to constitute our "existence".

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

davidbrainerd
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by davidbrainerd » Mon May 08, 2017 11:14 pm

ronir583 wrote:
Nirvana, enlightenment is not of my concern. If it will reach nirvana then it would reach nirvana. If it would reach enlightenment, then it would reach enlightenment.

In a way, no big deal for what is very important for me now, is to practice, apply the 8 noble path, to be out of this cycle of birth and death. :namaste:
Aren't going to Nirvana and exiting the cycle two ways of putting the same thing?

Dinsdale
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by Dinsdale » Thu May 11, 2017 8:49 am

There isn't a consensus on what the nidanas represent, just a lot of interpretations.
Buddha save me from new-agers!

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retrofuturist
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by retrofuturist » Thu May 11, 2017 11:09 pm

Greetings Spiny,
Spiny Norman wrote:There isn't a consensus on what the nidanas represent, just a lot of interpretations.
True, but nowhere anywhere in any scripture is there to be found this notion of it being a "cycle". It's as if the subsequent "wheel of life" diagram has retrospectively been absorbed into mainstream understanding.

I remember somewhere (I think was the evening prior to the kickoff of a Goenka retreat) that some guy had written out the paticcasamuppada formula in some non-English script, and was trying to wow and mystify us by taking the two ends of the paper and joining them up to form a circle. I just sat there, smiled, and shook my head gently...

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

2600htz
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by 2600htz » Fri May 12, 2017 2:36 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Spiny,
Spiny Norman wrote:There isn't a consensus on what the nidanas represent, just a lot of interpretations.
True, but nowhere anywhere in any scripture is there to be found this notion of it being a "cycle". It's as if the subsequent "wheel of life" diagram has retrospectively been absorbed into mainstream understanding.

I remember somewhere (I think was the evening prior to the kickoff of a Goenka retreat) that some guy had written out the paticcasamuppada formula in some non-English script, and was trying to wow and mystify us by taking the two ends of the paper and joining them up to form a circle. I just sat there, smiled, and shook my head gently...

Metta,
Paul. :)
Hello:

What do u mean by dependent origination being a cycle or not being a cycle?.

Regards.

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retrofuturist
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by retrofuturist » Fri May 12, 2017 2:59 am

Greetings,
2600htz wrote:What do u mean by dependent origination being a cycle or not being a cycle?
I mean it's not a cycle, and the suttas never taught it as a cycle.

For more information, see: Is There Scriptural Justification for The Wheel

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

pegembara
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by pegembara » Fri May 12, 2017 3:26 am

ronir583 wrote:That is why we practice meditation for us to have an insight that this present life is a result of the past.

We are just being fooled and being in the cycle of aeons of time. S what i am now, is because of my past and this moment will become a future in the next moment.

In a way, no big deal for what is very important for me now, is to practice, apply the 8 noble path, to be out of this cycle of birth and death. :namaste:

To be out of the cycle of "birth and death" requires that one fully realise the fact of anatta. If there truly isn't a person there, that means there isn't really an entity that gets born, ages and dies.
There is a clear sense of the relationship between awareness of death and a delineated Self. The second is impossible without the first. Even prior to the disturbing syllogism, "If death exists, then I will die," there is an earlier one: "Since 'I' was born and will die, 'I' must exist."
Last edited by pegembara on Fri May 12, 2017 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by davidbrainerd » Fri May 12, 2017 3:29 am

pegembara wrote: To be out of the cycle of "birth and death" requires that one fully realise the fact of anatta. If there truly isn't a person there, that means there isn't really an entity that gets born, ages and dies.
So to get out of the cycle means realizing there is actually no cycle because nothing actually exists? That's plain illogical....and not what Buddha taught.

pegembara
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by pegembara » Fri May 12, 2017 3:34 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
pegembara wrote: To be out of the cycle of "birth and death" requires that one fully realise the fact of anatta. If there truly isn't a person there, that means there isn't really an entity that gets born, ages and dies.
So to get out of the cycle means realizing there is actually no cycle because nothing actually exists? That's plain illogical....and not what Buddha taught.
There is a difference between nothing exists and no-thing exists. Anatta means there are no-things.
"Exactly so, lord. As I understand the Dhamma taught by the Blessed One, it is just this consciousness [entity] that runs and wanders on, not another."

"Which consciousness, Sāti, is that?" [1]

"This speaker, this knower, lord, that is sensitive here & there to the ripening of good & evil actions."

"And to whom, worthless man, do you understand me to have taught the Dhamma like that? Haven't I, in many ways, said of dependently co-arisen consciousness, 'Apart from a requisite condition, there is no coming-into-play of consciousness'? [2] But you, through your own poor grasp, not only slander us but also dig yourself up [by the root] and produce much demerit for yourself. That will lead to your long-term harm & suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
" . . . . . . . Suppose, monks, a magician or a magician's apprentice
should hold a magic-show at the four cross-roads; and a keen-sighted
man should see it, ponder over it and reflect on it radically. Even as
he sees it, ponders over it and reflects on it radically, he would find it
empty; he would find it hollow; he would find it void of essence.

What essence, monks, could there be in a magic show?

Even so, monks, whatever consciousness --- be it past, future or
present, in oneself or external, gross or subtle, inferior or superior,
far or near -- a monk sees it, ponders over it and reflects on it
radically. And even as he sees it, ponders over it and reflects on it
radically, he would find it empty; he would find it hollow; he would
find it void of essence. What essence, monks, could there be in a
consciousness ? . . . . . . ”

Form is like a mass of foam
And feeling--but an airy bubble.
Perception is like a mirage
And formations a plantain tree.

Consciousness is a magic-show,
A juggler's trick entire.
All these similes were made known
By the 'Kinsman-of-the-Sun.

S. III 142.
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

davidbrainerd
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by davidbrainerd » Fri May 12, 2017 3:59 am

pegembara wrote:
There is a difference between nothing exists and no-thing exists.
No there isn't.

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retrofuturist
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by retrofuturist » Fri May 12, 2017 4:06 am

Greetings David,

What about "space"? It becomes a "thing" by virtue of being attributed thing-ness, yet, it is nothing.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

davidbrainerd
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by davidbrainerd » Fri May 12, 2017 5:31 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings David,

What about "space"? It becomes a "thing" by virtue of being attributed thing-ness, yet, it is nothing.

Metta,
Paul. :)
Ok, then by saying nothing or no-thing exists, you're saying there is only space which in reality there isn't because space itself is relative to having things to put in space.

pegembara
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Re: My action about the 12 dependent origination

Post by pegembara » Fri May 12, 2017 6:52 am

davidbrainerd wrote:
pegembara wrote:
There is a difference between nothing exists and no-thing exists.
No there isn't.

"By & large, Kaccayana, this world is supported by (takes as its object) a polarity, that of existence & non-existence.

"'Everything exists': That is one extreme. 'Everything doesn't exist': That is a second extreme.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

What's your view then? Is there a person called davidbrainerd?
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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