SteRo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:38 am
Dhamma Chameleon wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 8:08 am
An example: someone beyond stream entry may have the idea 'I am someone who has attained stream-entry.'
But that's personality view abandoned by sotapanna.
The problem here is the confusion of full-fledged conceptual views or beliefs with the conceit 'I am'. The conceit 'I am' is momentary and on the level of intuition. That does not exclude that it may evolve into full-fledged conceptual personality views or beliefs but it does not do so in case of sotapanna although sotapanna harbors intuitive 'I am' conceit. Why is this so? Because when the conceit 'I am' sets off to evolve into full-fledged conceptual personality view the knowing of the sotapanna obstructs this.
I am saying that it is possible to temporarily cling to ideas and concepts about the self beyond stream entry, without actually believing that they are permanently
true, due to the greed, ill-will and delusion that remain. That this cognitive dissonance is possible because right view is knowledge that can be obscured by delusion even though the knowledge remains; it is not un-known, but it needs to be remembered. Haven't you ever forgotten to act according to something which you actually know to be true? It's just that beyond stream entry there is absolutely no doubt about that knowledge being true, whilst before it's still possible to doubt it because you've not had a temporary direct experience of it that dispels doubt.
This might seem like a technical issue, the reason why I think it's important is because it explains how people beyond stream entry can continue to break the precepts. There is some sort of idea about
the self involved as the basis for such actions, on top of the idea 'I am'. The more reduced someone's ideas about self become, the less likely they are to break the precepts. When greed and aversion are gone only subtle clinging and sense of 'I am' remains, so to me it seems clear that greed and aversion are related to a grosser or greater sense of 'I am'.
My intention is to create some theoretical room for the possibility of precept-breaking beyond stream entry with a theory about how it happens.