Do serious buddhist get bullied?

[form]

Given if others know they won't tell lies and cannot get aggressive etc.?

[SarathW]

Buddha go bullied many times.

[form]

Buddha go bullied many times.

From what I see it, he is quite assertive and never submissive.

[DNS]

Given if others know they won't tell lies and cannot get aggressive etc.?

In one of Ven. Dhammika's books, he wrote about his good friend, Godwin Samararatne, who was an excellent meditation teacher. Ven. Dhammika reported about how nice Godwin was and if he had any fault, it was that sometimes people would take advantage of him; for example people asking for money from him and then Godwin giving them everything he has, foregoing his own needs.

And then I remember another article about another good meditation teacher, Anagarika Shri Munindra where it was reported that one of his students went with him to the market. The student was shocked to see Munindra haggling and negotiating price over some peanuts for sale. The student asked him about that and Muninda replied, "I said live life simply -- to be simple, but not a simpleton."

[No_Mind]

Given if others know they won't tell lies and cannot get aggressive etc.?

It depends .. I can only share what I do .. if I meet a person in a nasty mood, I will usually not reply unless he uses extreme expletives (which thankfully has never happened to me) .. if he is just rude I will ignore him.

If someone has parked their car in a narrow alley in such a way that there is a traffic jam .. I will politely but firmly tell the owner to move the car.

If a goon shows up and wants to extort money (never happened yet but never know) I will weigh my options .. if police can help I will go to police or pay what is asked.

Be firm and polite is my motto in public.

Of course this does not work with one species of humans .. lawyers .. they will bully any client into paying more, be they atheists or Buddhists or scientologists. Before my lawyer, I (as client) surrender to endless torture without a word of protest.

[justindesilva]

Buddha go bullied many times.

From what I see it, he is quite assertive and never submissive.

Though Mshatma GAndhi was not a buddhist but s Hindu he accepted buddhism lately and he believed in ahimsa , non violence, and with his non violence principles he won his way in Indian politics to gain freedom from England. Anagarika Dharmapala a well known buddhist who fought against the Christian missionaries in Sri lanka corrected the way of life who followed the Christian church and their culture. He liberated the budda Gaya from the hands of Mshsnta a Hindu devoted where Budda Gaya is one of the buddhist temples in North India with the Bodhi tree where Budda enlightened.
The bhante or monk mijettuwstte Gunananda had many hard hitting dialogues against the missionaries in Sri Lanka to bring back the lost faith in buddhism by sri Lankans .

[binocular]

Given if others know they won't tell lies and cannot get aggressive etc.?

In one of Ven. Dhammika's books, he wrote about his good friend, Godwin Samararatne, who was an excellent meditation teacher. Ven. Dhammika reported about how nice Godwin was and if he had any fault, it was that sometimes people would take advantage of him; for example people asking for money from him and then Godwin giving them everything he has, foregoing his own needs.

And then I remember another article about another good meditation teacher, Anagarika Shri Munindra where it was reported that one of his students went with him to the market. The student was shocked to see Munindra haggling and negotiating price over some peanuts for sale. The student asked him about that and Muninda replied, "I said live life simply -- to be simple, but not a simpleton."

§ One of Ajaan Fuang’s students—a seamstress—was criticized by a customer:
“You practice the Dhamma, don’t you? Then why are you so greedy, charging
such high prices? People practicing the Dhamma should take only enough profit
just to get by.”
Although she knew her prices were fair, she couldn’t think of a good answer, so
the next time she saw Ajaan Fuang she told him what had happened. He replied,
“The next time they say that, tell them—‘Look, I’m not practicing the Dhamma to
be stupid.’”

http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/Writ ... reness.pdf

[binocular]

Good topic! With a lot of important implications for daily life!

Given if others know they won't tell lies and cannot get aggressive etc.?

Other people will sometimes appeal to a person's religion.
Sometimes, those appeals seem perfectly justified -- like when the person is in some position of power within the religious system and yet doesn't act in line with the precepts of the religion.
Other times, those appeals are intended to profit at the expense of the religious person. E.g. "You're a Christian, you're supposed to turn the other cheek if I slap you on one."

It seems to be helpful to figure out in advance how one will reply to other people's appeals to one's religiosity.

- - -

There is also the other way around: Religious people appealing to their own religiosity in order to profit at the expense of others (of the same or of another religion).

[Dhammabodhi]

Buddha go bullied many times.

From what I see it, he is quite assertive and never submissive.

Dhamma doesn't teach us to be doormats.

Goenkaji used to say that if you are in a tough situation with difficult people, use all your physical and verbal might to end the confrontation- but with a heart full of compassion for the person who is harming himself and others.

Needless to say it is very, very difficult to put in practice- nevertheless that's the ideal the Dhamma teaches and one we aspire to implement.

[Sam Vara]

Wouldn't it depend on ones past kamma?

[form]

Buddha go bullied many times.

From what I see it, he is quite assertive and never submissive.

Dhamma doesn't teach us to be doormats.

Goenkaji used to say that if you are in a tough situation with difficult people, use all your physical and verbal might to end the confrontation- but with a heart full of compassion for the person who is harming himself and others.

Needless to say it is very, very difficult to put in practice- nevertheless that's the ideal the Dhamma teaches and one we aspire to implement.

Just for discussion purpose, isn't there another sutta that says if a bandit were to saw off your four limbs one by one, one should remain unaffected?

[Dhammabodhi]

SN 35.88: [courtesy: accesstoinsight]

Note that this is for a monk and not a lay person.

"Well then, Punna. Now that I have instructed you with a brief instruction, in which country are you going to live?"

"Lord, there is a country called Sunaparanta. I am going to live there."

"Punna, the Sunaparanta people are fierce. They are rough. If they insult and ridicule you, what will you think?"

"If they insult and ridicule me, I will think, 'These Sunaparanta people are civilized, very civilized, in that they don't hit me with their hands.' That is what I will think, O Blessed One. That is what I will think, O One Well-gone."

"But if they hit you with their hands, what will you think?"

"...I will think, 'These Sunaparanta people are civilized, very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a clod'..."

"But if they hit you with a clod...?"

"...I will think, 'These Sunaparanta people are civilized, very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a stick'..."

"But if they hit you with a stick...?"

"...I will think, 'These Sunaparanta people are civilized, very civilized, in that they don't hit me with a knife'..."

"But if they hit you with a knife...?"

"...I will think, 'These Sunaparanta people are civilized, very civilized, in that they don't take my life with a sharp knife'..."

"But if they take your life with a sharp knife...?"

"If they take my life with a sharp knife, I will think, 'There are disciples of the Blessed One who — horrified, humiliated, and disgusted by the body and by life — have sought for an assassin, but here I have met my assassin without searching for him.' That is what I will think, O Blessed One. That is what I will think, O One Well-gone."

"Good, Punna, very good. Possessing such calm and self-control you are fit to dwell among the Sunaparantans. Now it is time to do as you see fit."

And on a lighter note- adaptation of the above sutta in 'Good Morning Vietnam':

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[User156079]

Question id ask is who is bullying who accoding to Tipitaka. As i see it it is impossible to bully an Arahant because there is "noone at home to offend" and all the consequent emotional pain will fall upon the fool.

In practice i dont mind people "abusing" my good will because i see it as an opportunity to reflect on their and my own behavior and training in The Dhamma. When they step over the line of wholesomeness ill say thats not an appropriate request and explain it as i see it. Ie if friends ask to do something unwholesome for them rather than asking me to pay for some pizzas or something id genuily dont mind even tho i may have greed.

Luckily people around me have a sense of shame and are more interested in The Dhamma for the most part.

[SarathW]

As I see it it is impossible to bully an Arahant

Isn't bodily harm bullying?

[form]

If one attach to nothing, indeed no one can bully him. But most people are just lay person and has possessions. They can be unfairly treated or taken advantage of.