New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

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SarathW
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New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by SarathW »

New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

I came up with this slightly different interpretation of Sotapanna.
Sotapanna is:
a) Eliminated the first three fetters.
b) Attenuated the last seven fetters.
- Attachment aversion is attenuated less than a once returner. (because he practice giving (Dana).
- He understand the Dukkha in form and formless realms so he has no desire for it
- He has less restlessness as he practice meditation.
- He has understanding of four noble truths and follow the Noble Eight Fold Path hence he has developed some wisdom

Please comment.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
rajitha7
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by rajitha7 »

Well, many think the Sotapanna stage is difficult to achieve.

This is NOT the case at all. The wrong notions have kept people away and discouraged people from practicing.

A full understanding of stream entry is provided here.

Please understand and share with others. This is very important and everyone should know.
It's all -> here
form
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by form »

rajitha7 wrote:Well, many think the Sotapanna stage is difficult to achieve.

This is NOT the case at all. The wrong notions have kept people away and discouraged people from practicing.

A full understanding of stream entry is provided here.

Please understand and share with others. This is very important and everyone should know.
Good stuff.
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DNS
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by DNS »

SarathW wrote:New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

I came up with this slightly different interpretation of Sotapanna.
Sotapanna is:
b) Attenuated the last seven fetters.
Please comment.
There is no indication of this (b) in the Suttas or the reports of Sotapannas in the Suttas. A once returner has attenuated the 4th & 5th fetters. No need to make stream entry harder than it already is, as noted by above posters.
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by DNS »

form wrote:
rajitha7 wrote:Well, many think the Sotapanna stage is difficult to achieve.

This is NOT the case at all. The wrong notions have kept people away and discouraged people from practicing.

A full understanding of stream entry is provided here.

Please understand and share with others. This is very important and everyone should know.
Good stuff.
+1 Nice website rajitha7. Is that your website? Are you the primary author of that site?
SarathW
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by SarathW »

There is a Sutta to say that Sota means the path.
So stream enterer means the person who follow the Noble Eightfold Path.
ie: Stream winner should posses Sila, Samadhi and Panna.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
rajitha7
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by rajitha7 »

David,
David N. Snyder wrote: +1 Nice website rajitha7. Is that your website? Are you the primary author of that site?
The author of the website is Lal Pinnaduwage <lal54 at hotmail.com>

Lal's background is here.

https://puredhamma.net/about-me/

He responds to above email.
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mikenz66
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by mikenz66 »

form
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by form »

SarathW wrote:There is a Sutta to say that Sota means the path.
So stream enterer means the person who follow the Noble Eightfold Path.
ie: Stream winner should posses Sila, Samadhi and Panna.
It will be very hard to define to what standard of the ethic, concentration and wisdom. The generally accepted definition seems better.

I remembered the Buddha mentioned attaining it is harder than splitting a hair with an arrow head. Another analogy he gave involved something to do with a needle, man that seems almost impossible. :)
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aflatun
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by aflatun »

There are many interesting things on that website that have been thought provoking for me, they seem to challenge a lot of commonly held interpretations (at least some I have absorbed and assumed as common). I don't think I have the linguistic or textual capacity to judge their veracity but I keep holding out and hoping more able individuals might do so on DW!
"People often get too quick to say 'there's no self. There's no self...no self...no self.' There is self, there is focal point, its not yours. That's what not self is."

Ninoslav Ñāṇamoli
Senses and the Thought-1, 42:53

"Those who create constructs about the Buddha,
Who is beyond construction and without exhaustion,
Are thereby damaged by their constructs;
They fail to see the Thus-Gone.

That which is the nature of the Thus-Gone
Is also the nature of this world.
There is no nature of the Thus-Gone.
There is no nature of the world."

Nagarjuna
MMK XXII.15-16
SarathW
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by SarathW »

A once returner has attenuated the 4th & 5th fetters
So does this mean Sotapanna has not attenuated some attachment and aversion?

We all agree that Sotapanna observe the five precepts.
This means not only abstinence but also the practicing some wholsome acts.
- No killing but practicing loving kindness
- No stealing but practicing generosity
- No inappropriate sensual pleasures but practicing meditation and observing eight precepts (occassionaly)
- Not lying but speaking truth
- Not consuming alcohol but practicing mindfulness

===================

Eliminating first three fetter alone will not suffice to become a Sotapanna.
Following Noble Eightfold Path is essential.
Fetters are the sign of the sickness.
Noble Eightfold Path is the medicine.

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f ... 47#p390632
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
Bakmoon
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by Bakmoon »

SarathW wrote:New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

I came up with this slightly different interpretation of Sotapanna.
Sotapanna is:
a) Eliminated the first three fetters.
b) Attenuated the last seven fetters.
- Attachment aversion is attenuated less than a once returner. (because he practice giving (Dana).
- He understand the Dukkha in form and formless realms so he has no desire for it
- He has less restlessness as he practice meditation.
- He has understanding of four noble truths and follow the Noble Eight Fold Path hence he has developed some wisdom

Please comment.
There are more things than that.

For example, according to the various suttas in SN 25, a Stream Enterer directly knows and sees that the six sense bases and their objects, the five aggregates, and the twelve links of dependent origination are all impermanent, and is incapable of doing deeds that lead to the lower realms.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.
SarathW
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by SarathW »

a Stream Enterer directly knows and sees
The way I understand only the Arahant has direct knowledge.
There is a Sutta to support this.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
rajitha7
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by rajitha7 »

What is "super-mundane" ?

The "cupcake" simile

Mundane - I am not going to eat that cupcake because I have learned it's bad for my heart.
Super-mundane - I am not going to eat that cupcake because my brother died of a heart attack.

The "Super-mundane" understanding is superior. One no longer eats sugar because he knows the consequences first hand. It's more persuasive.

Similarly,

"Birth is suffering"

Mundane - I can see the baby crying. She must be in a lot of pain.

Super-mundane,

- I intellectually know each moment is composed assembling of the aggregates.
- I intellectually know each moment is shaped by the previous moment and the sense-doors i.e. there is no eternalism.
- I intellectually know the underlying process is dependent origination.
- I intellectually know the suffering it causes first hand.
- I intellectually know this will go on forever unless I intervene.
- I have incredible faith in the Buddha, Dhamma, and Sangha and I have absolutely no doubts.

As you can see, the second understanding is superior. The second understanding is superior as its based on a good understanding of the Dhamma. Just as you stop eating the cupcake because of personal conviction, you begin on the 8-fold path with a conviction of dukkha - that nothing in this world can bring a permanent happiness. I am going to change my ways as a result.
Last edited by rajitha7 on Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:42 am, edited 3 times in total.
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SarathW
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Re: New interpretation for stream winner. (Sotapanna)?

Post by SarathW »

Mundane - I am not going to eat that cupcake because I have learned it's bad for my heart.
Super-mundane - I am not going to eat that cupcake because my brother died of a heart attack.
Mundane (Lokiya): worldly or pertaining to this world. (five aggregate)
Supermundane (Alokiya): unworldly or not pertaining to this world (beyond fie aggregate)

:focus:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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