Brahm preceptor status revoked

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Bankei
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Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Bankei »

It seems the Thai authorities have revoked the Upajjhaya (preceptor) status of Aj Brahm.
see point 2 at http://www.dhammalight.com/official/Som ... -2009.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I thought anyone with more than 10 vassa was legally qualified to ordain monks. Is this another example of state regulations overriding the regulations of the Buddha?


Bankei
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Bankei

Laurens
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Laurens »

I think that the actions taken by the Thai authorities are unjust considering that Ajahn Brahm is simply trying to bring the monastic order back to the way that the Buddha intended it to be.
"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?"

Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

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pilgrim
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by pilgrim »

Even if under Thai laws he cannot act as uphajjaya, he can still act as one under the Vinaya. Just that these monks won't get the official Thai certificate.

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appicchato
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by appicchato »

Bankei wrote:I thought anyone with more than 10 vassa was legally qualified to ordain monks.
My understanding is that 10 Vassa is one of the requirements, but not the only one...and not 'anyone with...'

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BlackBird
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by BlackBird »

Let the ecclesiastical officials play their politics, just another nail in the coffin for 'Thai Buddhism'

I actually feel kinda angry, so I won't say anything more.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks

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Assaji
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Assaji »

Hi Bankei,
Bankei wrote:It seems the Thai authorities have revoked the Upajjhaya (preceptor) status of Aj Brahm.
see point 2 at http://www.dhammalight.com/official/Som ... -2009.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Well, the Thai Sangha actions seem decisive, and they seem determined to uphold the traditions.
That's definitely a good sign. Though I'm not sure how long they will last under all the mediacratic pressure.

Metta, Dmytro

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pink_trike
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by pink_trike »

BlackBird wrote:Let the ecclesiastical officials play their politics, just another nail in the coffin for 'Thai Buddhism'

I actually feel kinda angry, so I won't say anything more.
Might as well be angry at the wind. This is just a natural process - conditioned things rise, age, degenerate, and dissolve...creating the conditions for regeneration.

I'm surprised they found room for another nail in that nail-encrusted coffin. :smile:
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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BlackBird
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by BlackBird »

Hi PT, good point.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." - MN. 70 Kitagiri Sutta

Path Press - Ñāṇavīra Thera Dhamma Page - Ajahn Nyanamoli's Dhamma talks

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Cittasanto
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Cittasanto »

anyone he now ordains would be outside the thai sangha, in otherwords don't get the paperwork and other bits the thai government give the Thai sangha.
he is still a Theravadan maha-thera monk just not a preceptor for or member of the Thai sangha.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

vitellius
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by vitellius »

Dmytro wrote:Well, the Thai Sangha actions seem decisive, and they seem determined to uphold the traditions.
That's definitely a good sign.
What's particularly good about this?

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Assaji
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Assaji »

Oleksandr wrote:What's particularly good about this?
Hi, Oleksandr,

A good tradition, like a greeting, seems useless, but makes a great difference.

"What have you heard, Ananda: do the Vajjis neither enact new decrees nor abolish existing ones, but proceed in accordance with their ancient constitutions?"

"I have heard, Lord, that they do."

"So long, Ananda, as this is the case, the growth of the Vajjis is to be expected, not their decline."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta, Dmytro

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Anders
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Anders »

Ajahn Brams acted in accord with what he understands the Vinaya to be and did not establish any new decrees. The thai sangha differs, but his interpretation is supported by a significant part of the sri lankan sangha, including Bhikkhu bodhi.

This isn't a question of 'new decrees' but rather of correctly interpreting what the old decrees state.

vitellius
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by vitellius »

Hello Dmytro,

There is something good in keeping traditions, and something good in modernization.

But in this particular case, do you consider adhering to traditions is better than modernization for Thai sangha? Why?

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Cittasanto
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Cittasanto »

Anders Honore wrote:Ajahn Brams acted in accord with what he understands the Vinaya to be and did not establish any new decrees. The thai sangha differs, but his interpretation is supported by a significant part of the sri lankan sangha, including Bhikkhu bodhi.

This isn't a question of 'new decrees' but rather of correctly interpreting what the old decrees state.
While the Sri Lankan Sangha may agree, the Burmese and Thai Sanghas don't, although there is some difference of opinion. correct and incorrect is a perception not the absolute, what is the correct way of pronouncing potato?
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Assaji
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Re: Brahm preceptor status revoked

Post by Assaji »

Hi Anders,
Anders Honore wrote:Ajahn Brams acted in accord with what he understands the Vinaya to be and did not establish any new decrees. The thai sangha differs, but his interpretation is supported by a significant part of the sri lankan sangha, including Bhikkhu bodhi.
Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi revoked his support for Australian ordination:
http://www.dhammalight.com/corresponden ... _06_B.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

His links to Sri Lankan Sangha are now tenuous.

Why do you think that "a significant part of the Sri Lankan Sangha" supports Ajahn Brahms interpretation?
This isn't a question of 'new decrees' but rather of correctly interpreting what the old decrees state.
And who will decide what's correct?

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