What are views?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mkoll
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Re: What are views?

Post by Mkoll » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:45 am

SarathW wrote:Is compassion considered Ditthi?
Not in how I conceptualize it. Compassion is the wish that being(s) be free from dukkha. You could have views about compassion, for example "cultivating compassion is wholesome," or "there's no point in cultivating compassion," or "compassion is for the weak," etc. Obviously, the views you hold about compassion and other subjects are a huge determinant of how you act, hence the importance of views in Buddhism with right view being the first factor of the Noble Eightfold Path.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

santa100
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Re: What are views?

Post by santa100 » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:48 am

SarathW wrote:Is compassion considered Ditthi?
Well, what'd you think? Remember the "position" keyword mentioned in previous post?

SarathW
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Re: What are views?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 03, 2017 1:01 am

I think compassion, anger and attachment etc as an emotion are not a views, as Mkholl pointed out.
Last edited by SarathW on Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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SarathW
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Re: What are views?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:27 pm

Another good reply from Sutta Central.

https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/wh ... iew/3927/2
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

rowyourboat
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Re: What are views?

Post by rowyourboat » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:40 pm

Hi SarathW

Mundane (laukika) samma ditti are things like mother, father etc compared to supramundane (lokuttara) samma ditti, where these would be seen as five aggregates could be considered incorrect, but nevertheless beneficial on the path to nibbana, though not taking one to nibbana per se.

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Karuna
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SarathW
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Re: What are views?

Post by SarathW » Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:48 pm

Thanks.
Even the thoughts such as man, woman , tall, short, ugly, beautiful could be views as there are many variations in between.
However they may have some practical application even though they are not perfect.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

theY
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Re: What are views?

Post by theY » Sun Jan 08, 2017 1:58 pm

SarathW wrote:What are views?
Someone's concept about causes and effects (paṭiccasamuppāda & paṭiccasamuppanna).

Lobha view, desiring wrong concept. Bad.

Kusala view, knowing in wrong/right concept, no desiring. Good.

Wisdom view, rightly understanding in right concept. better.
SarathW wrote: a)Are views latent factor. What are they?
Co-nascence-condition: 8 citta, 21 cetasika, 28 rūpa.
Powerful-dependence-condition:81 citta, 52 cetasika, 28rūpa.
See: http://www.abhidhamma.com/txt_Patthana_ ... _group.pdf

SarathW wrote: b)Are newly born children have views?
Yes. Before they cry, they think "my happiness never die".

View is not a word to learn. It is a concept of thinking. Everyone can think. Baby also think.

SarathW wrote: c)How we develop new views? What are they?
Change person's wrong thinking about causes and effects. Think them new in right concept every time. Don't let nivaraṇa born between thinking.
SarathW wrote:
d)Are Arahants got views?
Yes, It's called "sammādiṭṭhi".

SarathW wrote:
e)Can we live without views?
Sometime. But everytime based on view. Crying has no view, but you maybe have a view before cry.

Example: "My mother never die. Die is only a separation. So, she still be my mother,though she died." So, you cry because of separation, when she die. We can see "when people cry they thinking only 'how can I throw it away? How can I kill it?'". But they always stop to cry to think. Diṭṭhi arising, at that time.

SarathW wrote:
f) Are all views bad?
I answered after, above a) question.

SarathW wrote:
g) What is the life like without views?
I answered in the example of your e) question.
SarathW wrote:
h)What is the etymology of Ditthi?
Lobha view in wrong concept, is micchādiṭṭhi.
Lobha view in right concept, is lobha (citta+cetasika) without micchādiṭṭhi.

Wholesome-citta can think a wrong concept, but it not desire.

Wisdom can think about wrong concept, with deciding "it's wrong causes or/and effects".

http://unmixedtheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... views.html
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

SarathW
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Re: What are views?

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 09, 2017 2:42 am

Someone's concept about causes and effects (paṭiccasamuppāda & paṭiccasamuppanna).
Perhaps this is the best way to summarise views.
That is without seen them as dependently arising we make another story around it.
Then we take that story as I,me and myself.

Any comments?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

indianromeo
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Re: What are views?

Post by indianromeo » Wed May 17, 2017 7:22 pm

chownah wrote:You might try thinking of views as being opinions.
chownah
:twothumbsup:

SarathW
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Re: What are views?

Post by SarathW » Thu May 18, 2017 10:03 am

Do animals have views?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

form
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Re: What are views?

Post by form » Thu May 18, 2017 10:13 am

All the above aside from the first post are views.

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robertk
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Re: What are views?

Post by robertk » Thu May 18, 2017 10:49 am

SarathW wrote:Do animals have views?
mostly animals have lobha or dosa but not associated with ditthi ( wrong view).

theY
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Re: What are views?

Post by theY » Thu May 18, 2017 3:32 pm

SarathW wrote:Do animals have views?
Sotapanna will never have miccha-ditthi anymore, so if dogs don't have miccha-ditthi, dogs are sotapanna.
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

justindesilva
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Re: What are views?

Post by justindesilva » Thu May 18, 2017 4:51 pm

theY wrote:
SarathW wrote:Do animals have views?
Sotapanna will never have miccha-ditthi anymore, so if dogs don't have miccha-ditthi, dogs are sotapanna.
The animals lead their lives by senses. But they have no control of their intentions which arise out of fear of life, hunger and thirst and living conditions. But humans can control their intentions and form their own views about living conditions. If the humans do not train to form their views (sankara or perceptions) they will in their next life be born in naraka or lower realms. Meditation is the only way to lead the mind to form good views.
Mano pubbangama damma manonsetta manomaya.......
Mind runs ahead of all activities. ( Dammapada ).
The term for view used by Lord Buddha is ditthi. Right views being samma ditthi and wrong views being micca ditthi. Samma ditthi are "Views clear of defilements ".

theY
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Re: What are views?

Post by theY » Fri May 19, 2017 12:38 am

justindesilva wrote:
theY wrote:
SarathW wrote:Do animals have views?
Sotapanna will never have miccha-ditthi anymore, so if dogs don't have miccha-ditthi, dogs are sotapanna.
The animals lead their lives by senses. But they have no [s]control of their intentions[s] which arise out of fear of life, hunger and thirst and living conditions. But humans can control their intentions and form their own views about living conditions. If the humans do not train to form their views (sankara or perceptions) they will in their next life be born in naraka or lower realms. Meditation is the only way to lead the mind to form good views.
Mano pubbangama damma manonsetta manomaya.......
Mind runs ahead of all activities. ( Dammapada ).
The term for view used by Lord Buddha is ditthi. Right views being samma ditthi and wrong views being micca ditthi. Samma ditthi are "Views clear of defilements ".
1. Control is cetana (kamma). Ditthi is not control. Ditthi is wrong concept of lobha-thinking.

So your comment is not the truth. It is wrong defination of ditthi. That also is not compatible with sutta, too.

So we can see, that some human use senses, some human control of their intentions. Some animals also use senses, some human control of their intentions.

Because ditthi is not control.

2.What is ditthi?

Someone's concept about causes and effects (paṭiccasamuppāda & paṭiccasamuppanna).
  1. Lobha view, desiring wrong concept. Bad. This wrong idea about wrong concept is miccha-ditthi. Some desiring always love it, miccha-ditthi.
  2. Kusala view, knowing in wrong/right concept, no desiring. Good.
  3. Wisdom view, rightly understanding in right concept. better.
3. Everyone, such as human or animals, can desire in wrong concept.

Example:

Animals can desire in concept,that about "dogs must kill all cats".

But some animals desire in concept, that about "dogs must make friend with cats".
Above message maybe out of date. Latest update will be in massage's link.
--------------------------------------------------
Tipitaka memorization is a rule of monks. It isn't just a choice. They must done it.
bahussuto nāma tividho hoti – nissayamuccanako, parisupaṭṭhāpako, bhikkhunovādakoti.
http://UnmixedTheravada.blogspot.com/20 ... monks.html

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