Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:36 am

Are these lectures based on the Nibbana: The Mind Stilled book?

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 am

Yes. Ven Analayo reads the text (which he transcribed, so he is very familiar with it) and adds comments.

You can listen to the lectures from last year at the link I gave.

Mike

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by rightviewftw » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:16 am

mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:50 am
Yes. Ven Analayo reads the text (which he transcribed, so he is very familiar with it) and adds comments.

You can listen to the lectures from last year at the link I gave.

Mike
Being tempted by the discussion ITT, I started listening. Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:

Where is a good place to leave comments?

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:22 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:16 am
Where is a good place to leave comments?
If you register, you can participate in the discussion of the lectures as they are given. Otherwise, of course, you could make comments here.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by Alex9 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:30 am

rightviewftw wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:16 am
Where is a good place to leave comments?
mikenz66 wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:22 am
If you register, you can participate in the discussion of the lectures as they are given. Otherwise, of course, you could make comments here.
:heart:
Mike
Participating in the discussion there is highly encouraged, and substantial questions and connections raised on the forum he will take up and address as a prologue to the following lecture.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:31 am

Alex9 wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:30 am
Participating in the discussion there is highly encouraged, and substantial questions and connections raised on the forum he will take up and address as a prologue to the following lecture.
Yes, I enjoyed the discussion there last year. Lots of interesting ideas, from Bhikkhu Analayo, Bhikkhunī, Dhammadinnā, and the other participants.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by Phena » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 am

Part 3 of Bhikkhu Analayo's talks, based on the late Venerable Nyanananda's, Nibbāna: The Mind Stilled, will begin tomorrow 5th April.

For those interested here is the link for registration: https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/resourc ... gistration

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by budo » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:52 am

Phena wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 am
Part 3 of Bhikkhu Analayo's talks, based on the late Venerable Nyanananda's, Nibbāna: The Mind Stilled, will begin tomorrow 5th April.

For those interested here is the link for registration: https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/resourc ... gistration
Is part 1 accessible online? Thank you

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by Phena » Fri Apr 05, 2019 6:44 am

budo wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:52 am
Phena wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:46 am
Part 3 of Bhikkhu Analayo's talks, based on the late Venerable Nyanananda's, Nibbāna: The Mind Stilled, will begin tomorrow 5th April.

For those interested here is the link for registration: https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/resourc ... gistration
Is part 1 accessible online? Thank you
Yes it is. Part 1 & 2 of the talks are both available. Just use the registration link above and then scroll down.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:53 pm

This E-Learning series is finally over. For me, it has been amazingly useful to go through these sermons slowly, with insightful explanations by Bhikkhu Analayo, who has lived with these Sermons for a long time, having been the transcriber of the English translation. In the last lecture he commented how, when he started getting the tapes, he had recently received an electronic copy of the Tipitika, and was able to quickly locate the passages by typing in the Pali from Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda's recitations.

He urged listeners (about 1000 were registered, though only a few dozen posted on the discussion group) to go out and make use of this knowledge...

The previous two years are available here: https://www.buddhistinquiry.org/resourc ... -lectures/ and I presume that this year's will be added soon. The PDF's there include alternative translations and parallels. This year's talks have been uploaded here: https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/an ... 2019/13267

And the full set, and other books by Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda are available here: https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/

In Sermon 27, the series switches gear somewhat. As Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda says:
The aim of this series of sermons, however, is not the satisfying of some
curiosity at an academic level. It is to pave the way for an attainment of this
goal, by rediscovering the intrinsic qualities of this Dhamma that is well
proclaimed, svākkhāto, visible here and now, sandiṭṭhiko, timeless, akāliko,
inviting one to come and see, ehipassiko, leading one onwards, opanayiko, and
realizable personally by the wise, paccattaṃ veditabbo viññūhi. So the few
sermons that will follow, might well be an elixir to the minds of those
meditators striving hard day and night to realize Nibbāna.
I'm not sure if I'd paid such attention to the last seven lectures before, since for a time only the first 26 were available, but these are certainly worth studying, along with Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda's meditation books, such as Seeing Through, Walk to Nibbana, Towards Calm and Insight..

Towards the end of the series Bhikkhu Analayo points out a number of ways in which Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda follows the Commentaries, rather than the conclusions of Early Buddhist Text analysis, which is interesting, but of course not necessarily important to the overall message.

In terms of practicalities, in the last sermon there is an analysis of the Majjhesutta, https://suttacentral.net/an6.61/en/sujato, which refers to the Tissametteyyamāṇavapucchā, https://suttacentral.net/snp5.3/en/anandajoti:
“For whom is there no turmoil?
Who is the wise man, who has known both ends, and is undefiled in the middle?
Who do you say is a Great Man? Who has gone beyond the seamstress here?”
In AN6.61, Six Bhikkhus give their interpretation of this verse. The Buddha then states that in SNP5.3 he was thinking of:
"Contact, friends, is one end, arising of contact is the second end, cessation of
contact is in the middle, craving is the seamstress, for it is craving that stitches
up for the birth of this and that specific existence."
However he also approves of the other 5:
... the past is one end, the future is the second end, the present is the middle, craving is the seamstress.
... one end is
pleasant feeling, the second end is unpleasant or painful feeling, and the middle is neither-unpleasant-nor-pleasant feeling. Craving is again the seamstress.
.. one end is name, the second end is form, the middle is consciousness and the seamstress is craving.
... one end is the six internal sense-spheres, the second end is the six external sense-spheres, consciousness is the middle and craving is the seamstress.
... one end is sakkāya, a term
for the five aggregates of grasping, literally the 'existing body'. The second end,
according to him, is the arising of sakkāya. The middle is the cessation of
sakkāya. As before, the seamstress is craving.
As Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda notes:
... One can make use of these six as meditation topics. The verse has a pragmatic value and so also the explanations given. What is the business of this seamstress or weaver?
...
One of the participants in the on-line discussion emphasised what Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda implies, that the six things "in the middle", cessation of contact, the present, neutral feeling, consciousness, and cessation of sakkāya, are things that are easy to miss, even though we are often told by teachers to notice them... We tend to focus on the craving, and so on. To notice these objects is to focus on what craving obscures.

It's wonderful that what, at first site, looks like an academic discussion (Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda calls it a "symposium" of bhikkhus) is actually extremely practical.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:00 pm

Regarding the Nibbana Sermons, in Questions and Answers https://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/ Bhikkhu K. Ñāṇananda comments:
“The Gāthās in the Sagāthaka Vagga, although often not
given enough attention, are very deep. I stopped the Nibbāna
series at sermon number 33, but what I had planned for 34,
although never delivered, was based on that beautiful verse from
the Nimokkha Sutta: https://suttacentral.net/sn1.2

Nandībhavaparikkhayā saññāviññāṇasaṅkhayā,
Vedanānaṃ nirodhā upasamā evaṃ khvāhaṃ āvuso
jānāmi
Sattānaṃ nimokkhaṃ pamokkhaṃ vivekan’ti. [SN. 1.2]

When delight and existence are exhausted
When perception and consciousness are both destroyed
When feelings cease and are appeased – thus, O friend,
Do I know, for them that live
Deliverance, freedom, detachment.
– Translation by Bhante Ñāṇananda:
Saṃyutta Nikāya – An Anthology

“In all other religions, viññāṇa was taken as a unit, and
worse, as the soul. It is taught that even if everything else is
impermanent, this isn’t. And it is taught as that which
reaches Brahmā. But the Buddha pointed out that it is a mere
illusion. It can’t exist on its own.
There are extensive footnotes in Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda’s Saṃyutta Nikāya – An Anthology, with which we might imagine how a 34th Sermon would have played out.

For futher study there is the 20 lecture series: The Law of Dependent Arising (Paṭicca Samuppāda: The Secret of Bondage and Release.

Perhaps I should leave the final word to Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda. In Questions and Answers , page 106, he replies to a correspondent:

Regarding P.S. [Dependent Arising] Sermon No. 13 you may study it side by
side with my discussion of ‘saṅkhārā’ in Towards Calm and
Insight (pp.14-28). I am sorry, with failing health in my senile
seventies I cannot afford to go on ‘commenting’ at length. I am
devoting most of the time to translating the 20 sermons on P.S.
So far I have finished the first ten. Looking back on the past 45
years of my monk’s life, I may say, I have already presented in
rough outline what I have to say in Concept and Reality. After 20
years I elaborated on it in my Nibbāna Sermons. After another 20
years I delivered the Paṭicca Samuppāda sermons which further
elaborated on some extremely deep points in the Dhamma. I
don’t think I will live to provide ‘commentaries’ to clarify them
further. All I can do is to remind you of the 3 R’s (a new
version!) ‘Reading – Reflection – Realization’
.

My best wishes for your good health and progress towards
Nibbāna.

With mettā
K. Ñāṇananda

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:21 pm

Greetings,

:candle:

Nice. Thanks for sharing Mike.

The relationship outlined above between C&R, Nibbana Sermons, and Paticcasamuppada, is probably why other people's commentary on these works is of little interest to me. Like the Buddha before him, I think he lived long enough and had ample opportunity to say what needed to be said.

In contrast, sharing relevant extracts, relevant to discussions and situations is very valuable, so I thank you for having done that. I'm pleased this course has been of assistance in that regard.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 12:07 am

retrofuturist wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 11:21 pm
The relationship outlined above between C&R, Nibbana Sermons, and Paticcasamuppada, is probably why other people's commentary on these works is of little interest to me. Like the Buddha before him, I think he lived long enough and had ample opportunity to say what needed to be said.
Yes, of course. It would be foolish to rely exclusively on others' interpretations of the Dhamma, or others' interpretations of Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda's (or other modern teachers') interpretations...

However, I found that having extra information about certain aspects very helpful: More details about Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda's background; The approach of the monastery where he delivered those Sermons; How some of his exposition appears designed to connect with Commentarial concepts such as the progress of insight; How discussion may have progressed (in some cases he seems to be responding to points raised since the previous talk); Alternative translations and parallels of quoted suttas; Connections with Bhikkhu Ñāṇananda's other books; ...

These titbits of information came not only from Bhikkhu Analayo, but also from other participants. Much like discussion on this Forum.

But of course, you're right, these Sermons are insightful on their own terms. And the vast majority of Bhikkhu Analayo's presentations were simply the reading of the Sermons.

:heart:
Mike

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by mikenz66 » Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:41 pm

Some more notes...
mikenz66 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:53 pm
...
In terms of practicalities, in the last sermon there is an analysis of the Majjhesutta, https://suttacentral.net/an6.61/en/sujato, which refers to the Tissametteyyamāṇavapucchā, https://suttacentral.net/snp5.3/en/anandajoti:
“For whom is there no turmoil?
Who is the wise man, who has known both ends, and is undefiled in the middle?
Who do you say is a Great Man? Who has gone beyond the seamstress here?”
...
Looking back at our Study Group from 2010, I see that Nyana noted viewtopic.php?t=5949#p94209 that this is discussed in Seeing Through: A Guide to Insight Meditation. (The numbering of the Sutta is different, since we were using the Access to Insight numbering there).

I think we may not have had access to the translations of the later Nibbana Sermons at that point, only 1-25: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=2042&start=30#p51092

Seeing Through gives some practical advice:
Nanananda wrote: So actually what we have here is just a bit of bare experience. That too comes about by giving recognition to the two ends - the internal base and the external base. By recognizing them, by separating them, by discriminating between them, there arises a certain measuring. So the concept of two things striking together also follows as a matter of course. Given two things, there is a possibility of a contact between them. And this is 'contact' as the world understands it. Given this contact, there arise dependent on it, feeling, perception and all the rest of it. It goes as far as thinking and logic.
...
The best revelation of this state of affairs comes when one has accelerated one's speed of mental-noting to such an extent that when a thought comes to one's mind, one summarily dismisses it as a mere thinking without being carried away by it. Thereby one does not allow that thought to crystallize itself as an object. Normally, an object is something that one clings to or hangs on to. The mind which has been in the habit of clinging throughout saṁsāra, always seeks to hang on to something or the other, however frail it may be. That is because of the craving for existence. Just as a man falling down a precipice would hang on even to the frail straw for fear of the fall, the ever-new regenerator, craving - 'taṇhā ponobhavikā' - prompts one to hang on to this that or the other. But the crux of the problem lies where the mind meets its object.
...
I suggest reading the entire passage...

Going back to Sermon 20 we see a related discussion:
“It is disintegrating, monk, that is why it is called ‘the world’. …
Bhikkhu Bodhis translation is here: https://suttacentral.net/sn35.82
Cessation was discussed earlier, in Sermon 17, and there I was struck with the connection with the insight knowledge of dissolution (bhaṅga-ñāṇa):
Nanananda wrote: How does one realize cessation? By attending to the cessation aspect of
preparations.
As we have already mentioned, to arise and to cease is of the nature of
preparations, and here the attention is on the ceasing aspect. The worldlings in
general pay attention to the arising aspect. They can see only that aspect. The
Buddhas, on the other hand, have seen the cessation of existence in a subtle way.
The culmination of the practice of paying attention to the cessation aspect of
preparations is the realization of the cessation of existence.
Sermon 20 points to a connection to the arising of Dhamma Eye, for example see the comment about Venerable Kondañña in SN 56.11:
This is what the Blessed One said. Elated, the bhikkhus of the group of five delighted in the Blessed One’s statement. And while this discourse was being spoken, there arose in the Venerable Kondañña the dust-free, stainless vision of the Dhamma: “Whatever is subject to origination is all subject to cessation.”
https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11/en/bodhi#sc21
As Ven Ñāṇananda states, commenting on the SN 35.82 passage:
Nanananda wrote:Here the Buddha is redefining the concept of the world, punning on the verb
lujjati, which means to “break up” or “disintegrate”. To bring about a radical
change in outlook, in accordance with the Dhamma, the Buddha would
sometimes introduce a new etymology in preference to the old. This definition
of ‘the world’ is to the same effect. …
Bhikkhu Sujato tries to replicate the punning with his translation:
“‘Lujjatī’ti kho, bhikkhu, tasmā lokoti vuccat
“It wears away, mendicant, that’s why it’s called ‘the world’.
https://suttacentral.net/sn35.82/en/sujato#2.3
This “radical change in outlook, in accordance with the Dhamma” seems related to the SN 56.11 passage (and the other occurrences of such passages), and the insight knowledge of dissolution. One sees that what the Buddha calls “The World” is not substantial…

I’d always been a little puzzled where Kondañña’s inspired utterance came from in the context of the First Discourse, SN 56.11. However, in Seeing Through – A Guide to Insight Meditation http://seeingthroughthenet.net/books/
Ven Ñāṇananda comments (P14):
Nanananda wrote: Now, when the rapid process of destruction and breaking
up becomes more prominent, dispassion sets in. One sees this as a
trouble. One is repelled by it, not attracted. The result of this
dispassion is the weakening of craving, the regenerator – ‘taṇhā
ponobhavikā’. As craving thins out, the fact of cessation becomes
all the more clear, because it is this very craving that has been
concealing it all the time.

Why do we say that craving is concealing the fact of
cessation? Because craving is on the side of ‘arising.’ As soon as
a cessation occurs, craving as the regenerator prompts a re-
arising.
As the phrase ‘taṇhā ponobhavikā nandirāgasahagatā
tatratatrābhinandinī’ [*] implies, craving as the regenerator is
always out to make for re-becoming. It is accompanied by delight
and lust, and it delights now-here-now-there. Because of its very
nature of taking delight now here-now there, craving says, ‘Don’t
worry about the breath that is gone, catch hold of another breath.
Take hold of another breath’. It tempts and prompts. But when
dispassion sets in, this tendency to tempt and prompt becomes
less and less. It is reduced, with the result, that the cessation
aspect becomes more prominent – and with it, the passing away,
the breaking-up, the destruction. That way, one comes to see the
cessation of mind-objects also and that is nirodhānupassanā – the
contemplation of cessation.

[*] In context from: https://suttacentral.net/sn56.11/en/bodhi#sc5
“Now this, bhikkhus, is the noble truth of the origin of suffering: it is this craving which leads to renewed existence, accompanied by delight and lust, seeking delight here and there; that is, craving for sensual pleasures, craving for existence, craving for extermination.
In all of these cases, craving prevents us from seeing cessation, and seeing through the wrong view of “The World” as substantial.

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Re: Bhikkhu Anālayo’s e-learning course on the Nibbana sermons by Bhikkhu Katukurunde Ñāṇananda

Post by retrofuturist » Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:08 pm

Greetings,
mikenz66 wrote:
Sat Jul 13, 2019 10:41 pm
In all of these cases, craving prevents us from seeing cessation, and seeing through the wrong view of “The World” as substantial.
But what about my alarm clock?...

Just kidding! ;) :lol: 8-)

This is a pleasure to read.... well said Mike.

:anjali:

:candle: :candle:

Metta,
Paul. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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