Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

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SarathW
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Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by SarathW »

In the following video Bhante Jag made the following comments.

- Killing doe not include killing oneself.

- Sotapanna can kill a living being. He is only incapable of doing five heinous kamma.

- Arahant can kill themselves as they are blameless. Blameless means that they do not have another life. (Can someone give me Sutta support for this?)

- The three Arahants committed suicide as per Sutta were Arahants before they commit the act.

I know there are many discussions in this forum about this issue.
However it is interesting to listen to Bhante Jag and discuss this point again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XKG5GexwyA
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
justindesilva
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by justindesilva »

It is time not to be interested in slogans or sermons arising from one's thoughts and look in to our own inner selves and go iñ the noble eight fold path thus saving our previous time.
The five precepts properly practised will guide one to be on the noble eight fold path for a start.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

I do not think any Arahant will kill himself or herself.

"Does he who will not be reborn feel any painful feeling?"

Cases like that of Godhika Thera show that Arahantship was attained after the action that caused their death.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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SarathW
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by SarathW »

Bhante Jag talking about Godhika Thero and he think that he was an Arahant before he took the knife.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
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robertk
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by robertk »

SarathW wrote:Bhante Jag talking about Godhika Thero and he think that he was an Arahant before he took the knife.
It is fine he thinks that . Of course though his ideas differ from Theravada.
santa100
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by santa100 »

SarathW wrote:Bhante Jag made the following comments..."Sotapanna can kill a living being. He is only incapable of doing five heinous kamma"...
It's bad enough for one blind man to head toward a cliff. But it's much much worse if that blind man leads thousands of others down the cliff with him. Bhante Jag needs to carefully study AN 9.12, MN 48, SN 55.5, SN 12.41 before making any more claim like above.
davidbrainerd
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by davidbrainerd »

justindesilva wrote:It is time not to be interested in slogans or sermons arising from one's thoughts and look in to our own inner selves and go iñ the noble eight fold path thus saving our previous time.
Agreed. But as far as public facing Buddhism goes you can get yourself onto great trouble with that one. The same type of guys wanting to teach euthanasia (but controlling thmselves and waiting until the groundwork has been prepared) have been laying the groundwork of "no self, no inner core" so that you will not be able to look to your own inner self because they will have already convinced you it doesn't exist. And then when they finally come out in favor of euthanasia, you'll agree with them. That is their obvious hope.
davidbrainerd
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by davidbrainerd »

One more thought though. Its well known or should be that Mahavira (Buddha's contemporary, leader of Jainism) starved himself to death. There was apparently a shramanic tradition of taking ahimsa or not killing living beings so far as to stop eating, and thus allow oneself to starve to death in order to prevent oneself from further killing living beings. But they didn't stab or poison thmselves. They starved thmselves, and meditated to control the pain. Someone should tell this guy "fine, kill yourself, but do it the hard way like a real shramana, not like a coward Western atheist."
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retrofuturist
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by retrofuturist »

Greetings,
robertk wrote:
SarathW wrote:Bhante Jag talking about Godhika Thero and he think that he was an Arahant before he took the knife.
It is fine he thinks that . Of course though his ideas differ from Theravada.
True, but that idea does not differ from the raw sutta account.

Metta,
Paul. :)
"Whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things."
SarathW
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by SarathW »

It is hard for me to believe an Arahant will end his/her life before exhausting his life energy. (In Sinhalese we call this Ayu)
I also believe that the Arahants has the ability to end his life at will without euthanasia. (The way Buddha did)
===============


Kappam va tittheyya kappavasesam va. Comy. takes kappa not as "world-period" or "aeon," but as ayu-kappa, "life span," and explains avasesa (usually "remainder") by "in excess."
Comy.: "He may stay alive completing the life span pertaining to men at the given time. (Sub. Comy.: the maximum life span.) Kappavasesa: 'in excess' (atireka), i.e., more or less above the hundred years said to be the normally highest life expectation."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html
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Sylvester
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by Sylvester »

SarathW wrote:In the following video Bhante Jag made the following comments.

- Killing doe not include killing oneself.
Ven Dhammanando made an insightful observation about suicide here - http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... de#p343438

Apparently, a suicide attempt is only a dukkaṭa offence.
chownah
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by chownah »

davidbrainerd wrote:One more thought though. Its well known or should be that Mahavira (Buddha's contemporary, leader of Jainism) starved himself to death. There was apparently a shramanic tradition of taking ahimsa or not killing living beings so far as to stop eating, and thus allow oneself to starve to death in order to prevent oneself from further killing living beings. But they didn't stab or poison thmselves. They starved thmselves, and meditated to control the pain. Someone should tell this guy "fine, kill yourself, but do it the hard way like a real shramana, not like a coward Western atheist."
Why should we tell them that?
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udani
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by udani »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:I do not think any Arahant will kill himself or herself.

"Does he who will not be reborn feel any painful feeling?"

Cases like that of Godhika Thera show that Arahantship was attained after the action that caused there death.
There is 4 Arahants commit suicide Channa, Godhika and wakkali and vesali . Channa and Wakkali get suicide after attaining to the Arahantship.
SarathW
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by SarathW »

A person who attain fourth Jhana has neither pain nor pleasure.
They are imbued with equanimity.
Are you saying these four Arahants (if they were Arahants before the act of taking knife) were not attained any Jhana?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
udani
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Re: Bhante Jag - Euthanasia

Post by udani »

SarathW wrote:A person who attain fourth Jhana has neither pain nor pleasure.
They are imbued with equanimity.
Are you saying these four Arahants (if they were Arahants before the act of taking knife) were not attained any Jhana?
Im not saying this. These are on thripitaka. read channaowada sutta adn wakkali sutta. then you can get clear idea. and do you have any experience in 4 th Jhana, And how you think arahants are always sit on 4th jana? there are 2 kind of arahants in this wold.
chetho wimuktha(Ubathogaga vimuktha) and pranna vimuktha.
chetho mikutha arahant is the certain individual remains touching with his body those peaceful liberations that transcend form, that are formless, and — having seen with discernment — his fermentations are ended.
pranna wimuktha is the certain individual does not remain touching with his body those peaceful liberations that transcend form, that are formless, but — having seen with discernment — his fermentations are ended.

All arahants do not have super natural powers.In the Nidāna Samyutta (S.II.120-6) a group of bhikkhus who proclaimed their attainment of arahantship, when questioned by their colleagues about it, denied that they had developed the five kinds of super-knowledge—namely, psychic power (iddhi-vidhā), divine ear (dibba-sota), knowledge of others' minds (paracitta-vijānana), power to recall to mind past births (pubbenivāsānussati) and knowledge regarding other peoples' rebirths (cutū-papatti)—and declared that they had attained arahantship by developing wisdom (paññā-vimutti).



And also do you think that arahants has neither pain nor pleasure. they have passa wedhana and sancha, that means they feel all Dhukka whedana, "Sukha Wedhana" and "Adukkhama Sukha wedana". but they did not make sanskara.. they did not make any attachement.
Buddha also had pain. In some sutta Load buddha saild to saripuththa thero " Sariputta please continue discussion.. I have a back pain and im going to have a rest". didn't you read those sutta.

People expect super powers from arahants. Thats why they couldnt identify arahats even they have chance to meet them.
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