A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

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lyndon taylor
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A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by lyndon taylor »

In following this forum, it is clear to me that the vast majority of posters are heavily influenced by the South East Aisan Forest Monk Tradition, believe it or not, the Forest tradition is not representaive of all or most South Easy Asian Therevada traditions, I studied for some time with primarily refugee community Therevada Temples for people from Thailand, Cambodia and Laos, and briefly ordained as a monk at the Loma Linda Thervada Buddhist Temple in Southern California. This is an interview I made with one of the leaders of the Temple, a monk for many years and now a family man, this is from 2011, it is interesting to see how much in common and not in common with what we usually hear on this forum, But I sware to you this is 100% authentic and not made up, simply recounting what the Temple leader told me in the interview.


A visit to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple
formermonkJohn
January 2011 edited January 2011

Today was an exciting day, I got up early and around ten and drove to the local Therevada Cambodian Temple in Loma Linda, California USA. We have almost the largest concentration of refugee immigrants from Cambodia and Vietnam in the USA and at the temple things go on much the same way they do in Asia, white people like me a real rarity and there has been very little "westernization" of the Buddha's message. The monk who speaks good english was away so I talked for 1 1/2 hrs to an old friend who was one of the elders at the temple, attending almost every day and very knowledgeable on the Buddha as he had been a monk for ten years back in Cambodia, before starting a family.

The first thing I did was go over some facts about Buddhism, ideas I had been almost ridiculed for on other forums such as Buddha's being an advocate of vegetarianism, but I'll leave that for the bottom of this post. I questioned him on the most basic teaching of Buddhism, how important were the precepts etc. To the best of my recollection this is what he said in less broken english;mine;

"the most important, central teaching of the Buddha is Love, Love for those around us, and Love for everyone, then compassion for everyone' he went over and over this teaching, it was obvious he considers it much more important than following the rules like the precepts, I asked him about how important it was to follow the precepts, he thought very important,he really scoffed when I brought of the idea People calling themselves Buddhist who werent bothering to keep the precepts, he thought that was bad. In his opinion he said"the most important precept is number 5, no drugs and alcohol, drunks are more likely to kill and break the other precepts, understanding the religion requires a clear mind and you cant get a clear mind when you are using drugs and alcohol" remember I was asking him which precepts were the most important to the beginner or Buddhist young person.

He agreed wholeheartedly that buddhism promoted a simple life, not addicted to a lot of things , and that it was fairly conservative religion, not a lot of partying etc, although in southeast asian tradition they often have fairly festive "parties" or religious events at the temple, with lots of people, live bands, dancing and free food. I talked to him about being single and he mentioned"its better to be a monk all your life, having a wife and family makes it harder to be a good person because it splits your time. its good that your single, thats like being a monk, its easier to grow in the religion that way"

We talked at length about reincarnation and the soul. These therevada people definetly believe in past lives, future lives and reincarnation and the soul, but he told me the soul dies with the body, its the Spirit that was before and reincarnates and always will be. I asked him about Bodhissatva, people who reincarnate back on earth repeatedly to help mankind, he definetly agreed with this teaching but had not heard the term Bodhisattva or I was pronouncing it wrong or something. I asked him about Buddha nature, is everyone born with a small buddha nature that can grow and grow even into being a full buddha, and that anyone can do that, he wholeheartadly agreed, though once again the term buddha nature was of course something different in his language.

On vegetarianism he said basically what I have recounted before"the Buddha himself was a vegetarian, but he didnt say everyone has to be one, but he definetly indicated it was better to be vegetarian, in my country we have meditation schools that are very strict and they are all vegetarian, also in Vietnam and China the Buddhist temples are almost all vegetarian. its very bad to kill animals, but we are allowed to buy meat killed by some one else and eat it, but this is not ideal,I would never kill any animal even a chicken or a fish, the ideal of the buddha is be vegetarian, animals are just as good as people, anything that breathes deserves to be treated well especially animals, the buddha came not just for people but the animals as well, the buddha came for every living creature(sentient being) to benefit them all" Please believe me this is my best recollection of a conversation this morning with a venerateed temple elder, not my own thought or words, as I've already put my thoughts in writing I'll leave it at that.

Lastly the issue of Lying, is it OK to lie to prevent a greater crime, he just didnt know one way or the other but agreed lying to prevent killing seemed right, but he didnt know what the scripture said, he had been a monk many years ago starting in his teens and he is approaching 70 now.Thats all for now, thank you for your time. sincerely John

END

I'm not really looking forward to people tearing apart the respected Elders opinion about Buddhism, yes, they are different from what we often hear on this forum, but yes they are typical of a large segment of more mainstream Thervada traditions, schools that put less emphasis on meditation and scriptural quoting, and more emphasis on chanting and Buddhism Basics, if I may venture an opinion, thank you for reading, Sincerely Lyndon
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by Sprouticus »

Thank you for sharing the story of your interview with the temple elder. It was very timely, and helpful, for me.

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by lyndon taylor »

Thank you very much, its an interesting perspective and quite at odds with some of things posted on this forum, even by venerable monks. This man is considered a venerable former monk, and his perspective is not unusual for mainstream Therevada temples catering to Asians. I wonder if much of what we read on this forum is not the Dhamma of the more mainstream Therevada, but rather the Dhamma of the quite conservative Forest monk sub set of Thervada Buddhism. You can't equate some of the interpretations presented above with the teachings of the Forest Monk tradition. This is not to denigrate the Forest monk tradition in any way, just to let people be aware that not all Therevadans believe the same way, and differences of doctrine between different sects do exist.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by SDC »

lyndon taylor wrote:I wonder if much of what we read on this forum is not the Dhamma of the more mainstream Therevada, but rather the Dhamma of the quite conservative Forest monk sub set of Thervada Buddhism.
The work of many Burmese and Sri Lankan monks has had a heavy influence on DW. Much heavier than the Thai forest IMVHO.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by lyndon taylor »

I thought the Forest tradition was initially inspired by Burmese monks, is that correct or not??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

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lyndon taylor wrote:I thought the Forest tradition was initially inspired by Burmese monks, is that correct or not??
Not according to anything I have read. The TFT seems to have been the eventual result of some earlier reforms made in Thailand at the time. I suppose if you were to really dig down you would find Sri Lanka to have had an influence but not Burma.

Nevertheless, I did not mean to derail this topic, but it since you were wondering perhaps others were also.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by mikenz66 »

I think the history is complex. The Thai reforms of the 19th C did involve a lineage from the Mon area of Burma:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhammayuttika_Nikaya

Also, when people here talk about the "Forest Tradition" they tend to think of the western disciples of Ajahn Chah. That's a tiny subset, which seems heavily influenced by the ideas they brought with them. There are many diverse practices and ideas among Thai forest monks of Ajahn Chah's lineage and the many others lineages.

However, this only strengthens Lyndon's basic point that what is seen by many in the West as "Theravada Buddhism" is just a few particular subsets.

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by SDC »

mikenz66 wrote:However, this only strengthens Lyndon's basic point that what is seen by many in the West as "Theravada Buddhism" is just a few particular subsets.
That I do not disagree with but I do not find that to be representative of DW discussions as a whole which I thought was the point being made.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by mikenz66 »

SDC wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:However, this only strengthens Lyndon's basic point that what is seen by many in the West as "Theravada Buddhism" is just a few particular subsets.
That I do not disagree with but I do not find that to be representative of DW discussions as a whole which I thought was the point being made.
There is some great discussion here, but my impression, like Lyndon's, is that it represents only a small subset of the totality of Theravada. This is understandable, since most of us have limited access to non-English resources and organisations.

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by Sprouticus »

Input from currently less-represented-on-DW Theravada groups would be a valuable addition, I think.

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

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mikenz66 wrote:There is some great discussion here, but my impression, like Lyndon's, is that it represents only a small subset of the totality of Theravada.
Ah, now I see what you (and probably Lyndon) are referring to. I guess I am looking at this from a much different angle, and seeing as though any further comment will really be off topic, I will say no more.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

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lyndon taylor wrote: I wonder if much of what we read on this forum is not the Dhamma of the more mainstream Therevada, but rather the Dhamma of the quite conservative Forest monk sub set of Thervada Buddhism.
I'm quite bemused by the idea that the Theravada Thai Forest Tradition lineage of Ajahn Chah should be thought of as "conservative" and in particular the teachings of Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Amaro which I follow myself.

I don't know if things have changed here recently because I don't post as often as I used to, but I definately wouldn't say that there used to be an overwhelming majority following the Forest tradition at DW, quite the opposite in fact.

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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by SDC »

I guess my impression is that "mainstream Theravada" is what keeps close to the tone set by Buddhaghosa and subsequent movements in Sri Lanka and not necessarily the details of each and every development since. But I tend to think that whatever holds close to scripture both before and after Ashoka is what should be aimed at and therefore prominent work in that vein will gain the most attention. I think many of the notable results of the Mahavihara tradition in Sri Lanka, the Dhammayut reforms in Thailand we spoke of earlier, the vipassana movement in Burma, and Nyanatiloka in Sri Lanka are all very present here.

But if the measure is in regards to what most people are doing then I am sure this would not be considered "mainstream" and that there are thousands of little details that do not make it into the discussions here.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by DNS »

A poll of which tradition people here follow at DW is here in this sub-forum, pinned announcements section. Currently the top picks are:

Thai forest and other forest traditions: 28%
General Theravada: 25%
Modern Theravada: 12%
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Re: A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

Post by _anicca_ »

I would not say that the Thai Forest Tradition is "over represented", but it is a large subgroup in DW. The same can be said for Burmese and Sri Lankan style practitioners.

Theravada (more specifically vipassana) was brought over from South East Asia by Westerners which is the opposite of what happened with Mahayana and Vajrayana...

Lyndon is describing Theravada that has been brought over by people from the East. It's quite interesting to see the difference between the two. In the East, Buddhism can take on a folk or cultural element to it.

The one thing I have taken away from this interview is that Theravada in the East has influence from other Buddhist trains of thought.

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