A trip to the Cambodian Buddhist Temple

[lyndon taylor]

I would not say that the Thai Forest Tradition is "over represented", but it is a large subgroup in DW. The same can be said for Burmese and Sri Lankan style practitioners.

Theravada (more specifically vipassana) was brought over from South East Asia by Westerners which is the opposite of what happened with Mahayana and Vajrayana...

Lyndon is describing Theravada that has been brought over by people from the East. It's quite interesting to see the difference between the two. In the East, Buddhism can take on a folk or cultural element to it.

The one thing I have taken away from this interview is that Theravada in the East has influence from other Buddhist trains of thought.

You seem to get my point, Westerner Buddhists seem heavily influenced by not being Abrahamic in their outlook, so they tend to gloss over Therevada elements that have strong common ground with Abrahamic traditions. Eastern Buddhist as with refugee communities have not been heavily exposed to Abrahamic traditions so they have no concern whether their beliefs agree or don't agree with Abrahamic tradition, Eastern Buddhists are much more likely to be strong believers in reincarnation (not rebirth) and believe in multiple deities or gods. They also tend to be more superstitious and just plain less influenced by western philosophy IMHO.

[Mr Man]

A poll of which tradition people here follow at DW is here in this sub-forum, pinned announcements section. Currently the top picks are:

Thai forest and other forest traditions: 28%
General Theravada: 25%
Modern Theravada: 12%

It would be interesting to dig a little deeper into what people mean when they say they follow the "Thai forest and other forest traditions". My perception of the "Thai forest tradition" is that it is essentially a monastic tradition. How does a lay follower follow that tradition? My opinion would be from direct interaction with the monastic community.

[SDC]

I just find it interesting that the approach of the modern day SE Asian practitioner seems to take precedence over the very approaches in which they are rooted. There seems to be evidence of waves of SE Asian monastics throughout the history of the Dhamma in that region who deliberately strived for an understanding based on the texts, and it is this very angle that I find being branded a western influence when it clearly isn't. I think it just so happens that the west can relate to it better than some of the regional developments (which tend to be more culturally rooted), but they should by know means be routinely given the credit for its development.

[Aloka]

It would be interesting to dig a little deeper into what people mean when they say they follow the "Thai forest and other forest traditions". My perception of the "Thai forest tradition" is that it is essentially a monastic tradition. How does a lay follower follow that tradition? My opinion would be from direct interaction with the monastic community.

When I said in my previous posts that I followed the teachings of Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Amaro, I meant actually attending their talks, taking part in question and answer sessions afterwards,and also speaking to them personally during the breaks.

[mikenz66]

I just find it interesting that the approach of the modern day SE Asian practitioner seems to take precedence over the very approaches in which they are rooted. There seems to be evidence of waves of SE Asian monastics throughout the history of the Dhamma in that region who deliberately strived for an understanding based on the texts, and it is this very angle that I find being branded a western influence when it clearly isn't. I think it just so happens that the west can relate to it better than some of the regional developments (which tend to be more culturally rooted), but they should by know means be routinely given the credit for its development.

I think the point is that much of what we see in the West has been filtered by western cultural and/or folk assumptions. See, for example:
American (Western) Folk Buddhism
https://bhikkhucintita.wordpress.com/ho ... -buddhism/
http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=12718

Much of what has came to us from Sri Lanka last century was communicated by people with German, British, and American cultural backgrounds (Nyanatiloka, Nyanaponika, Nanamoli, Nanavira, Bodhi, etc). Similarly, material from Mahasi Sayadaw, Ajahn Chah, and so on, were communicated either through some of those people (Nyanaponika's "Heart of Buddhist Meditation", from the 50s for example), and new American, British, etc travellers.

I certainly would not advocate that you have to be involved with "real SE Asian Buddhists" to be "authentic", but it is helpful to be aware of the various cultural accretions that inform our knowledge.


Mike

[Mr Man]

When I said in my previous posts that I followed the teachings of Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Amaro, I meant actually attending their talks, taking part in question and answer sessions afterwards,and also speaking to them personally during the breaks.

Yes and that would give you much more of an appreciation of their teaching and where it is coming from (the tradition, which is as I said essentially Buddhist monasticism) than reading a book or listening to a tape. Because to an extent you are entering the context of the teaching, all in my opinion.

[Aloka]

When I said in my previous posts that I followed the teachings of Ajahn Sumedho and Ajahn Amaro, I meant actually attending their talks, taking part in question and answer sessions afterwards,and also speaking to them personally during the breaks.

Yes and that would give you much more of an appreciation of their teaching and where it is coming from (the tradition, which is as I said essentially Buddhist monasticism) than reading a book or listening to a tape. Because to an extent you are entering the context of the teaching, all in my opinion.

Yes, I agree - and of course while one is listening and interacting with the teachings, one is also in the company of other practitioners, which includes laypeople, monks and nuns.

[ToVincent]

Much of what has came to us from Sri Lanka last century was communicated by people with German, British, and American cultural backgrounds (Nyanatiloka, Nyanaponika, Nanamoli, Nanavira, Bodhi, etc).

There are also people, a bit less braggart, that have done a great job in the 19th, and even in the 18th century.

Have you ever heard an Indian bragging about having invented something? They even let people steal from them; without saying a thing.
Some people are like that. They don't have to show off; or to sell something (mercantile). They are just self-satisfied with what they have achieved.
This is usually of a higher content.

[shaunc]

I find it interesting that he believes the 5th precept is the most important (alcohol/drugs). I personally don't have a dog in this fight but I do find that this is the most controversial of the precepts among westerners.
I suppose I was a bit luckier than most as I'd already left that part of my life behind 3 or 4 years before I discovered Buddhism.

[lyndon taylor]

His reasoning for saying the 5th precept was the most important is because breaking the 5th precept could lead you to break the other 4, for instance you're probably not going to go off and kill someone unless drugs or alcohol is involved, at least that, as I understand it, was his reasoning.

[davidbrainerd]

His reasoning for saying the 5th precept was the most important is because breaking the 5th precept could lead you to break the other 4, for instance you're probably not going to go off and kill someone unless drugs or alcohol is involved, at least that, as I understand it, was his reasoning.

Absolutely. People in Buddhism arguing against freewill existing, people in Christianity pretending morality is sooooo hard so we need justification to be by faith alone because morality is just soooooo hard its impossible....its because they're drunks (or are trying to accomodate drunks). Sober people know they can live morally because they're doing it.

[shaunc]

His reasoning for saying the 5th precept was the most important is because breaking the 5th precept could lead you to break the other 4, for instance you're probably not going to go off and kill someone unless drugs or alcohol is involved, at least that, as I understand it, was his reasoning.

That does make sense. Most of us have felt angry towards someone at some point but if you're sober you're unlikely to act on it but if you're drunk you could very well end up regretting it.

[lyndon taylor]

I thought I'd bump up this old thread of mine, and invite anyone that hasn't read the OP post about my visit to the local Cambodian Temple where I was briefly a monk about 20 years ago. Its interesting that the former monk at the temple believes we have a spirit that goes on after death, and believes in reincarnation, not really rebirth, and has some really profound takes on the importance of the 5 precepts, give it a read and feel free to comment, sincerely Former Monk John, as my Monk name was John, (they couldn't pronounce Lyndon!!)