An example of no intension

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rajitha7
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An example of no intension

Post by rajitha7 »

Enlightened beings no longer "intend" to do anything. Without good/neutral/bad intentions no Kamma generated what so ever. I was looking for an example in the Suttas where this is evident.

Could the following be an example?
"Venerable Gotama, Ajatasattu, the king of Magadha, pays homage at the feet of the Venerable Gotama and wishes him good health, strength, ease, vigour, and comfort. He desires to wage war against the Vajjis, and he has spoken in this fashion: 'These Vajjis, powerful and glorious as they are, I shall annihilate them, I shall make them perish, I shall utterly destroy them.'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html
The brahman Vassakara, an advisor to the king of Magadha asks Buddha's opinion on waging war against the "Vajjis".

The Buddha does not say whether or not to go to war. He gives 7 reasons why Vajjis will not be easily beaten in a war.

If the Buddha advises against a war that shows an intention to stop the war. Instead, he explains why war would be futile by mentioning how pious the Vajji community conducts themselves.

Is this an example of a display of no-intension. Are there any other examples in the Suttas that show "non-intention" by enlightened beings?
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davidbrainerd
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by davidbrainerd »

Your post would have been a perfect post in favor of freewill in the freewill debate.
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fivebells
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by fivebells »

Can you quote the passages which indicate that an enlightened being harbors no intentions? It seems like this might be a matter of over-generalization or mistranslation.

The highest levels of jhana involve no intention, but in the story you cite, the Buddha executed blatantly intentional actions.
santa100
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by santa100 »

An enlightened being while still living, still operates with all Five Aggregates intact, which volitional formation is a part of. The difference is that s/he no longer identifies with "I", "mine", and "myself". Therefore his wholesome conduct, wholesome volitional formation have no "anchor" for kamma to generate. In MN 78, this mode of operation of arahants is called: "skillful habits cease without trace", which obviously doesn't mean the enlightened being stop all his virtuous intentions and actions. It's just that without self-identification, they no longer generate kamma and so technically, no longer being described as skillful or wholesome.
Janalanda
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by Janalanda »

There is intention because intention does not depend on a self. What you may be refering to is that his mind does not "intend towards" anything. (pleasurable states, craving for existence etc.)
spacenick
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by spacenick »

santa100 wrote:An enlightened being while still living, still operates with all Five Aggregates intact, which volitional formation is a part of. The difference is that s/he no longer identifies with "I", "mine", and "myself". Therefore his wholesome conduct, wholesome volitional formation have no "anchor" for kamma to generate. In MN 78, this mode of operation of arahants is called: "skillful habits cease without trace", which obviously doesn't mean the enlightened being stop all his virtuous intentions and actions. It's just that without self-identification, they no longer generate kamma and so technically, no longer being described as skillful or wholesome.
:goodpost:

I think instead of saying "they no longer generate kamma" it's more accurate to say "they have escaped any kind of self-identification towards the aggregates, and therefore have escaped karmic retribution, since karmic retribution can only take form within the aggregates".

Otherwise some confusion can arise, something along the line of "well doesn't that mean an arahant would be completely immobile and never move ever again?"

Technically speaking an arahant does generate kamma (he still intends to do things, he intends to walk, to eat, and all that), but since there's no way for karma to "touch him" (he is abiding in vinnanam anidassam, therefore he doesn't "exist", he is "invisible", "unmanifest", "trackless", "outside of Time" [even Brahma cannot spot an arahant]), then we can say that "he does not generate kamma" (but there's a nuance there, hence my post). Or maybe we can say that the aggregates still generate karma but since there's no more "him" in the aggregates, then "he" does not generate kamma anymore. At that point even talking of "an arahant" or "him" is merely convention.
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: An example of no intention

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Intention arises together with all types of consciousness.
Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha wrote:Phasso vedanā saññā cetanā ekaggatā jīvitindriyaṃ manasikāro ceti sattime cetasikā sabbacittasādhāraṇā nāma.

Contact, feeling, perception, intention, one-pointedness, vitality, and attention; these seven mental states are called common to all kinds of consciousness.
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dhammarelax
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by dhammarelax »

rajitha7 wrote:Enlightened beings no longer "intend" to do anything. Without good/neutral/bad intentions no Kamma generated what so ever. I was looking for an example in the Suttas where this is evident.

Could the following be an example?
"Venerable Gotama, Ajatasattu, the king of Magadha, pays homage at the feet of the Venerable Gotama and wishes him good health, strength, ease, vigour, and comfort. He desires to wage war against the Vajjis, and he has spoken in this fashion: 'These Vajjis, powerful and glorious as they are, I shall annihilate them, I shall make them perish, I shall utterly destroy them.'"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .vaji.html
The brahman Vassakara, an advisor to the king of Magadha asks Buddha's opinion on waging war against the "Vajjis".

The Buddha does not say whether or not to go to war. He gives 7 reasons why Vajjis will not be easily beaten in a war.

If the Buddha advises against a war that shows an intention to stop the war. Instead, he explains why war would be futile by mentioning how pious the Vajji community conducts themselves.

Is this an example of a display of no-intension. Are there any other examples in the Suttas that show "non-intention" by enlightened beings?

Awakened persons have intentions: consider this (SN 46.4: https://suttacentral.net/en/sn46.4)

“Friends, there are these seven factors of enlightenment. What seven? The enlightenment factor of mindfulness, the enlightenment factor of discrimination of states, the enlightenment factor of energy, the enlightenment factor of rapture, the enlightenment factor of tranquillity, the enlightenment factor of concentration, the enlightenment factor of equanimity. These are the seven factors of enlightenment.

“Whichever of these seven factors of enlightenment I want to dwell in during the morning, I dwell in that factor of enlightenment during the morning. Whichever I want to dwell in during the middle of the day, I dwell in that factor of enlightenment during the middle of the day. Whichever I want to dwell in during the evening, I dwell in that factor of enlightenment during the evening."

Or DN 28: "And what is the Ariayan supernormal power? Here a monk if he wishes "Let me dwell with the disgusting not feeling disgust" he can so abide."

Or even after the Blessed ones awakening he considers that teaching the Dhamma might lead to his frustration and he needs the Brahmas intervention to teach, after he reaches the 5 monks he has to convince them to listen to the teaching. And so on.

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dhammarelax
Even if the flesh & blood in my body dry up, leaving just the skin, tendons, & bones, I will use all my human firmness, human persistence and human striving. There will be no relaxing my persistence until I am the first of my generation to attain full awakening in this lifetime. ed. AN 2.5
pegembara
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Re: An example of no intension

Post by pegembara »

The Buddha was free from greed, hatred and delusion, not intention.

"Then the thought occurred to me, 'To whom should I teach the Dhamma first? Who will quickly understand this Dhamma?' Then the thought occurred to me, 'This Alara Kalama is wise, competent, intelligent. He has long had little dust in his eyes. What if I were to teach him the Dhamma first? He will quickly understand this Dhamma.' Then devas came to me and said, 'Lord, Alara Kalama died seven days ago.' And knowledge & vision arose within me: 'Alara Kalama died seven days ago.' The thought occurred to me, 'A great loss has Alara Kalama suffered. If he had heard this Dhamma, he would have quickly understood it.'

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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