7 things the Buddha never said...

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badscooter
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7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by badscooter » Sun Sep 04, 2016 1:59 am

Pretty cool little article... I found some things pretty interesting..
http://www.lionsroar.com/what-the-buddha-never-said/
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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bodom
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by bodom » Sun Sep 04, 2016 2:21 am

Theres more where that came from:

Fake Buddha Quotes
http://fakebuddhaquotes.com/#ath

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With no struggling, no thinking,
the mind, still,
will see cause and effect
vanishing in the Void.
Attached to nothing, letting go:
Know that this is the way
to allay all stress.

- Upasika Kee Nanayan

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badscooter
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by badscooter » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:14 pm

bodom wrote:Theres more where that came from:

Fake Buddha Quotes
http://fakebuddhaquotes.com/#ath

:namaste:
:toast:
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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Mr Man
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by Mr Man » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:32 pm

And there was this - What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8879

plwk
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by plwk » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:13 am

No.8...


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:38 am

There is a story that was made up, that the story about the Buddha teaching the Abhidhamma to his mother in Tāvatiṃsa was made up.

In other words, in the opinion of the speaker, the Abhidhamma was not taught by the Buddha. He has no way of knowing this, it is just his own opinion. By the same reasoning we could say that the teacher of gods and men (sattha devāmanussānaṃ) could not have taught the Maṅgala Sutta to a certain deity who approached him in the Jeta Grove, etc.
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cjmacie
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by cjmacie » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:24 am

Mr Man wrote:And there was this - What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8879
That looks interesting.

Unfortunately, the lead link (in the OP of that thread, five years ago) to "Christopher Titmuss has published 42 items which he says were not taught by the Buddha." --
http://www.dharmafacilitators.org/index ... idnotteach
doesn't seem to work anymore.

Anyone know of another way to get to what Titmuss published?

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Mr Man
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by Mr Man » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:41 am

cjmacie wrote:
Mr Man wrote:And there was this - What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8879
That looks interesting.

Unfortunately, the lead link (in the OP of that thread, five years ago) to "Christopher Titmuss has published 42 items which he says were not taught by the Buddha." --
http://www.dharmafacilitators.org/index ... idnotteach
doesn't seem to work anymore.

Anyone know of another way to get to what Titmuss published?
Hi cjmacie
You can view it here (using wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20111230025 ... idnotteach

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cjmacie
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by cjmacie » Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:53 am

Mr Man wrote:
cjmacie wrote:
Mr Man wrote:And there was this - What the Buddha did not teach - Christopher Titmuss
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8879
That looks interesting. ...doesn't seem to work anymore... another way to get to what Titmuss published?
Hi cjmacie
You can view it here (using wayback machine)
https://web.archive.org/web/20111230025 ... idnotteach
Great! Thanks. Curious as he was teacher of one of my teachers. Looking through this list, though, I think he's mistaken on several points. Oh well...

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Coëmgenu
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by Coëmgenu » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:17 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:There is a story that was made up, that the story about the Buddha teaching the Abhidhamma to his mother in Tāvatiṃsa was made up.

In other words, in the opinion of the speaker, the Abhidhamma was not taught by the Buddha. He has no way of knowing this, it is just his own opinion. By the same reasoning we could say that the teacher of gods and men (sattha devāmanussānaṃ) could not have taught the Maṅgala Sutta to a certain deity who approached him in the Jeta Grove, etc.
Bhante,

I have always read the narrative thus:

The Abhidhamma is technically attributed to Shariputta, not Gotama-Buddha, although, in the myth, it is believed that Shariputta, in order to recite this piece of Dhamma, learned the teaching right from Gotama-Buddha, supernaturally, after he had preached the teaching in a heavenly realm.

When the sangha preserved and eventually committed to text, the teachings, which we now call the "Pali Canon", what they were preserving was not mecessarily the exact words, in the exact language, in the exact phrasing, as it was once said, presumably, by the Buddha, in authentic history.

Rather than that, the sangha preserves the Dhamma, not just the words/exact-words/exact-language/exact-phrasing.

The Pali Canon is a linguistic manifestation and preservation of Dhamma, not necessary a manifestation and preservation of words/exact-words/exact-language/exact-phrasing.

This is why the Dhamma is not preserved in the texts alone (suttas), because the texts presume an insider knowledge of the subject material (Dhamma) that can only really be achieved through engagement with the sangha AND the texts, not by reading texts alone.

From this perspective, the Abhidhamma being attributed to Shariputta, seems to imply that it is not considered "mandatory Dhamma", although it is highly learnèd material, perhaps even material gleaned from Shariputta's insights on Buddhist teachings, rather than implying that it is not Dhamma, or "inferior" Dhamma.

Do you see problems in this line of thinking about Dhamma?

:anjali:
-Caoimhghín
如無為,如是難見、不動、不屈、不死、無漏、覆蔭、洲渚、濟渡、依止、擁護、不流轉、離熾焰、離燒然、流通、清涼、微妙、安隱、無病、無所有、涅槃。
Like this is the uncreated, like this is that which is difficult to realize, with no moving, no bending, no dying. Utterly lacking secretions and smothered in the dark, it is the island shore. Where there is ferrying, it is the crossing. It is dependency's ceasing, it is the end of circulating transmissions. It is the exhaustion of the flame, it is the ending of the burning. Flowing openly, pure and cool, with secret subtlety, and calm occultation, lacking ailment, lacking owning, nirvāṇa.
Asaṁskṛtadharmasūtra, Sermon on the Uncreated Phenomenon, T99.224b7, Saṁyuktāgama 890

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:06 am

This is not the Classical Theravāda forum, so other views may be expressed here.

The orthodox account is given in the Commentary to Dhammapada v 181.
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badscooter
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Re: 7 things the Buddha never said...

Post by badscooter » Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:53 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:There is a story that was made up, that the story about the Buddha teaching the Abhidhamma to his mother in Tāvatiṃsa was made up.

In other words, in the opinion of the speaker, the Abhidhamma was not taught by the Buddha. He has no way of knowing this, it is just his own opinion. By the same reasoning we could say that the teacher of gods and men (sattha devāmanussānaṃ) could not have taught the Maṅgala Sutta to a certain deity who approached him in the Jeta Grove, etc.
:goodpost:
Thank you Bhante
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"

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