Important! Get the real meaning!

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Dan74
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Dan74 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:01 pm

Shuun wrote:
Dan74 wrote:in which there are many wise guides out there, if we care to look
What is the wisest guide you can direct me towards? I don't have any kind of Sangha here, so I'm taking things in my own hands, can't tell its not worth it, because I'm *forced* to do the investigation myself, and that is very good.
Where are you located?
_/|\_

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lionking
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by lionking » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:43 pm

Shuun wrote:I don't have any kind of Sangha here, so I'm taking things in my own hands, can't tell its not worth it, because I'm *forced* to do the investigation myself, and that is very good.
Ven Samahita will speak to you over Skype if you need answers. He will give you a time when he can go online.

https://www.youtube.com/user/BhikkhuSamahita
grr ..

davidbrainerd
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by davidbrainerd » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:53 pm

The Thinker wrote:
"Destroyed is birth; the higher life is fulfilled; nothing more is to
be done, and beyond this life nothing more remains." DN ii 153
Destroyed is birth; the higher life is fulfilled; nothing more is to be done, and beyond this life nothing more remains [to be done].

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tiltbillings
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:49 pm

Shuun wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Shuun wrote: . . .
And upon what basis do you claim to know the "real meaning?"
I have not proclaimed as such "I know the real meaning". Meaning of what? Please tell me how is that you understand liberation, so i can help you without conceit.
"Real meaning" is a significant part of the title you gave to this thread. And your opening post certainly suggest that what ever the "real meaning" is that you know it. So, upon what basis do you make this strongly implied claim?

"Please tell me how is that you understand liberation, so i can help you without conceit." Do tell me upon what basis do you claim that you can claim to help me with my understanding of liberation? You are liberated, is that what you are saying?
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Goofaholix
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Goofaholix » Thu Jul 14, 2016 7:50 pm

... Are Latvian translations correct? Are there enough Latvian speaking arahants?
“Peace is within oneself to be found in the same place as agitation and suffering. It is not found in a forest or on a hilltop, nor is it given by a teacher. Where you experience suffering, you can also find freedom from suffering. Trying to run away from suffering is actually to run toward it.” ― Ajahn Chah

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samseva
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by samseva » Thu Jul 14, 2016 9:48 pm

SamKR wrote:
Shuun wrote:
There is 'shortage' or Arhats, there is backing up this claim.
'Shortage' of Arahants and even Sotapannas (comparing to their numbers during the time of the Buddha) certainly implies that something is not quite right.
Shuun wrote: "concentration" for "samadhi".
This is one of the worst ones in my list. To me "concentration" sounds quite opposite to what "samadhi" might 'really' mean.

I agree with you, Shuun, regarding the gist of what you are saying. :thumbsup:
Shortage of Arahants or Sottāpannas is far from a convincing correlation that indicates that parts of the texts are incorrectly translated. Practice and shortage of good-practicing teachers has probably much more to do with it.

Furthermore, your knowledge, or anyone's knowledge actually, regarding the number of Arahants there are is based on not much, since the Arahants who are alive today are probably not going around claiming to be an Arahant nor hanging out on Facebook. Meaning, the only thing we can do is guess.

dhammacola
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by dhammacola » Fri Jul 15, 2016 5:55 pm

@Shuun,

Friend, I'd be inclined to appreciate any honest effort expended toward understanding the Dhamma and helping others to understand it. However, although your initial message to the forum was one of alarm, that the Dhamma we have received in English is enough off the mark to significantly impact our understanding of the Shamma, you have evaded so far every attempt to request from you the means by which we might come to a more accurate and complete translation and by which we might come to understand in what ways, specifically, the Dhamma as we have received it is incomplete or inaccurate.

Many people of great moral character and admirable dedication have spent lifetimes to bring us the Dhamma in a way that is accessible to us. To dismiss their efforts in so cavalier a manner, you could only rightly do so if you had some profound and unprecedented insight into the Dhamma. Such insight has not been forthcoming despite repeated attempts to elicit such from you. I'm not sure what it was you were hoping to accomplish here, but ask yourself: how many people here have I actually helped attain the Dhamma? If you find the answer to that unsatisfactory or you feel that this is not the right question to ask, then I can only ask after your intention, because I don't understand it.
Mettā!

Your friend,
Cola.

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Shuun
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Shuun » Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:54 pm

dhammacola wrote:@Shuun,

Friend, I'd be inclined to appreciate any honest effort expended toward understanding the Dhamma and helping others to understand it. However, although your initial message to the forum was one of alarm, that the Dhamma we have received in English is enough off the mark to significantly impact our understanding of the Shamma, you have evaded so far every attempt to request from you the means by which we might come to a more accurate and complete translation and by which we might come to understand in what ways, specifically, the Dhamma as we have received it is incomplete or inaccurate.
Then let us be in peace about it, there is no cause for proliferation here, is is as such that i have not said you translations that would make you better understand the meaning. One should be alert on what is said and so on what is not said. If there is peace & appreciation in you for this as "Friend, I'd be inclined to appreciate any honest effort expended toward understanding the Dhamma and helping others to understand it.", then put that foremost.
Many people of great moral character and admirable dedication have spent lifetimes to bring us the Dhamma in a way that is accessible to us. To dismiss their efforts in so cavalier a manner, you could only rightly do so if you had some profound and unprecedented insight into the Dhamma. Such insight has not been forthcoming despite repeated attempts to elicit such from you.
"So take the insight by seeing of arising & cessation of feelings, there it is, here it comes to you", that would not be possible, that is not how insight comes to be.

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Shuun
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Shuun » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:06 pm

tiltbillings wrote: "Please tell me how is that you understand liberation, so i can help you without conceit." Do tell me upon what basis do you claim that you can claim to help me with my understanding of liberation? You are liberated, is that what you are saying?
Liberation from what? Who cares? You should be investigating the Dhamma, not asking me questions, maybe that is going to be better for you. :alien:

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Shuun
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Shuun » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:11 pm

dhammacola wrote:@Shuun,

Friend, I'd be inclined to appreciate any honest effort expended toward understanding the Dhamma and helping others to understand it. However, although your initial message to the forum was one of alarm, that the Dhamma we have received in English is enough off the mark to significantly impact our understanding of the Shamma, you have evaded so far every attempt to request from you the means by which we might come to a more accurate and complete translation and by which we might come to understand in what ways, specifically, the Dhamma as we have received it is incomplete or inaccurate.
Then let us be in peace about it, there is no cause for proliferation here, is is as such that i have not said you translations that would make you better understand the meaning. One should be alert on what is said and so on what is not said. If there is peace & appreciation in you for this as "Friend, I'd be inclined to appreciate any honest effort expended toward understanding the Dhamma and helping others to understand it.", then put that foremost.
Many people of great moral character and admirable dedication have spent lifetimes to bring us the Dhamma in a way that is accessible to us. To dismiss their efforts in so cavalier a manner, you could only rightly do so if you had some profound and unprecedented insight into the Dhamma. Such insight has not been forthcoming despite repeated attempts to elicit such from you.
"So take the insight by seeing of arising & cessation of feelings, there it is, here it comes to you", that would not be possible, that is not how insight comes to be.

how many people here have I actually helped attain the Dhamma? If you find the answer to that unsatisfactory or you feel that this is not the right question to ask, then I can only ask after your intention, because I don't understand it.
Why would i knowingly, with open awareness would take on " how many people here have I actually helped attain the Dhamma?" as yoke for feeling of unsatisfactory or satisfactory? That is not good for me, so it is not taken on.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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tiltbillings
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by tiltbillings » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:18 pm

Shuun wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: "Please tell me how is that you understand liberation, so i can help you without conceit." Do tell me upon what basis do you claim that you can claim to help me with my understanding of liberation? You are liberated, is that what you are saying?
Liberation from what? Who cares? You should be investigating the Dhamma, not asking me questions, maybe that is going to be better for you. :alien:
In other words, you are just trolling.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Ben
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Re: Important! Get the real meaning!

Post by Ben » Fri Jul 15, 2016 10:19 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Shuun wrote:
tiltbillings wrote: "Please tell me how is that you understand liberation, so i can help you without conceit." Do tell me upon what basis do you claim that you can claim to help me with my understanding of liberation? You are liberated, is that what you are saying?
Liberation from what? Who cares? You should be investigating the Dhamma, not asking me questions, maybe that is going to be better for you. :alien:
In other words, you are just trolling.
yes. and trolling is strictly forbidden on this forum warranting harsh disciplinary action.

This circus is now closed.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
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Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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