Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

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Kaneki
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Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by Kaneki » Fri May 13, 2016 4:00 pm

So I was very excited to find there is a systematized step by step process of cultivating the path factors, the Visuddhimagga. I have Bhikkhu Nyanamoli's translation. But I've gotta say.... WHAT? I can't make sense of most if it, the grammar is so confusing. "What is virtue? It is the states beginning with volition present in one who abstains from killing living things, etc." Ok so it's the states beginning, that's good to know, what state? Virtue is the state of virtuosity's beginning? I mean I can understand some of what's said, but for the most part I'm left thinking "ARE YOU ***** KIDDING ME????". Though that's what I get for getting my hopes up.

So I ask, is there any translation that makes sense for a weak minded person like myself? Or maybe even an alternative system that's more modern?

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bodom
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by bodom » Fri May 13, 2016 4:56 pm

I returned my copy to the bookstore for a refund less than a week after purchasing it. Like you it was too much for me to wrap my mind around at the time. Though I eventually did purchase another copy it is strictly for reference use.

Here's a thread with my experience of trying to read the visuddhimagga:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?t=1156" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:namaste:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


"Dont send the mind outside. Watch the mind right at the mind."

- Ajahn Dune Atulo

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daverupa
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by daverupa » Fri May 13, 2016 5:05 pm

Kaneki wrote:So I was very excited to find there is a systematized step by step process of cultivating the path factors
This is in the Suttas too, called the 'Gradual Path'.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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samseva
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by samseva » Fri May 13, 2016 5:49 pm

Even if there were another version, it would probably be much less acurately translated or even be unreliable. Like you said, it's a systematized work (so is the original); it's very techincal and detailed. Removing these aspects would probably render a more simple translation imprecise and the messages in this large work could very easily be misunderstood.

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mikenz66
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by mikenz66 » Fri May 13, 2016 8:38 pm

Hi Kankei,

Which parts are you reading? Chapters IV to XVII are very dense and theoretical as they spell out details of the Abhidhamma model. The previous sections on virtue and concentration are much easier to read, and there are some material in Chapters XVIII on that is not too difficult. One approach is to simply skim over bits that you find confusing.

If you really want to get to grips with the Visuddhimagga, Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of A Comprehensive Manual of the Abhidhamma, which is available as a PDF, see: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=826#p10038, is helpful. You can simply read chapter IX, Compendium of meditation subjects, which summarises the development of concentration and wisdsom.

:anjali:
Mike

paul
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by paul » Fri May 13, 2016 10:14 pm

"What is virtue? It is the states beginning with volition..."
This means that virtue requires an act of will, unlike the states arising from it.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

schakma94
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by schakma94 » Wed May 18, 2016 1:48 am

I translated the Visuddhimagga in Bengali a few months ago. Perhaps I can give you a more readable excerpt of a certain chapter in plain english. Just tell me which chapter you need and I will give it a try.

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Kare
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by Kare » Thu May 19, 2016 1:16 am

I read the English translation many years ago. I found it very tough going. Then I got hold of it in Pali, and I was stunned by the clearness and beauty of the text.
Mettāya,
Kåre

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samseva
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Re: Easier translations of Visuddhimagga?

Post by samseva » Thu May 19, 2016 1:22 am

Kare wrote:I read the English translation many years ago. I found it very tough going. Then I got hold of it in Pali, and I was stunned by the clearness and beauty of the text.
That is good to know. I hope to get there eventually, however for now, I think the learning curve of actually learning Pāḷi will be more difficult and take much longer than simply reading Ven. Ñāṇamoli's translation slowly and carefully. :D

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