Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Mr Man
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by Mr Man » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:58 am

hermitwin wrote:This happened when Aj Chah was alive.
A school principal came to see Aj chah.
His wife had a stroke and was paralysed.
He visited a prostitute once a week and he asked aj chah whether he was breaking any precepts.
Aj chah said no.
Hi hermitwin
Where did you hear that anecdote? And what is it intended to show/support?

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Mr Man
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by Mr Man » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:14 pm

"Debauched in drink, with women too,
by dice debauched; such a fellow,
little by little his assets waste—
that’s the way to disaster’s woe."

" Unsatisfied with his own wife,
with others’ wives he’s seen in tow,
corrupted too with prostitutes—
that’s the way to disaster’s woe."

" A man no longer young still weds
a girl with apple breasts—and lo!
for jealousy he cannot sleep—
that’s the way to disaster’s woe."


From "Parabhava Sutta" Sn 1.6

https://suttacentral.net/en/snp1.6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

dxm_dxm
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by dxm_dxm » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:27 pm

He visited a prostitute once a week and he asked aj chah whether he was breaking any precepts.
Aj chah said no.
These percepts are not laws like the 10 commandments at christians, they are not black and white things. What he may have been reffering to if this is true, is that there is no distinction between this kind of pleasure and other kind of pleasures in buddhism. Sexual pleasures are not demonised in buddhism as been worse than the other pleasures. Surpressing this ones while leaving the other 1000 pleasures the same is not gona help too much. Quiting this should come naturally. This percept was rather put there is order to prevent querrels, crimes, unhapiness etc. that could happen if you indulge in sexual misconduct. It was not put there with the intention of making the lay person quit or surpress sexual desire, rather to guard him from bad things that may come along if this desire is not controlled at least a little.
It is easy to judge men or women who visits prostitutes/giggolo. However, if it's done to meet one's sexual needs, I dont think its breaking any precepts.
How about breaking to percepts to satisfy one's money needs ? :D
There are worse things that people do.
Repressing sexual needs , which is arguably one of the most powerful biological needs could lead to worse behaviors.
Sexual desires are just as biological as money desires or drug desires - 0% biological 100% mental. It is way harder to surpress the "biological desire" for heroin in a heroin addicts and still some people do it. Some people surpress their "natural desire" for food in order to lose weight. The fact that it is in the human nature to have this desire does not excuse it. It is also in the human nature to have money desires, drug desires, to kill other people etc. I do not know why it is generally believed that the human is already perfect and that the default human nature is perfection. I would say that human nature is full of defilements and the goal of buddhism is to change this animal nature of the human that makes him a slave of his instincts and desires.

Also, I would say it is rather very easy to surpress sexual desires. Been asexual, maybe it is a little more easy for me but the method is important. To lower the sexual desire all you have to do is abstain from it, like with any drugs. Try ignoring sexual thoughts 2-3 days and you will see the desire almost disappears. It's a way less powerfull desire than many drugs. It's way easier people believe it is. Just try ignoring it 2-3 days and you will see the desire does not become bigger but way, way smaller. Like with any drugs. Believing this is "natural" therefore justified and impossible to stop makes it so powerfull. Even weed would be impossible to quit if people believed it is natural, justified and impossible to stop. The truth is, this is just like any drug and is reduced in the same way.
In the west, men pickup women from singles' bar. Many men lie and charm the women to get sex. Is that any better than paying a prostitute?
Deffinitly not. This is in my opinion way worse than going to a prostitute.

We still have not heard why the 2 persons in question here want to marry.

hermitwin
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by hermitwin » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:18 am

Sexual needs is a primal biological need. Otherwise the species would just go extinct. To describe it as something easily suppressed is simply not accurate.

hermitwin
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by hermitwin » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:28 am

To equate sexual pleasures with other kind of pleasure is not in accordance with what Buddha taught. How many monks have disrobed because they have fallen in love and wish to be with their partner?

Sexual acts are in the 5 precepts, 8 precepts , 10 precepts and a major rule in the vinaya.

dxm_dxm
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by dxm_dxm » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:39 am

Sexual needs is a primal biological need. Otherwise the species would just go extinct.
When looking at it from a biological prespective, sexual activity does bring dopamine and other substances to the brain when performed. The same goes for drugs, they bring dopamine and serotonine and etc. to the brain. The same goes for money, it produces you dopamine. So every pleasures that we have are all biological in this sense. However, I would not call these biological need, rather mental needs. This is because we seek these ways of producing dopamine and serotonine in order to get pleasure, witch is a mental experience. So I would rather call them mental needs.

I too, as an asexual person have perfectly functional sexual organs. Yet, I do not experience this mental need at the same level a non-asexual person does. This is just another way to prove that the term "mental need" would be more appropriate and less misleading.
To describe it as something easily suppressed is simply not accurate.
You may be true over here. What would have been more correct for me to say would have been that it's way more easy to resist than people expect. Still, neither is the desire for money easily surpressed, neither is the desire for drugs easily surpresed. It is hard to swim against the flow and resist these human/animalic instincts. But still, I would say there are many drugs way more powerfull than sexual activity and many people manage to quit them.
To equate sexual pleasures with other kind of pleasure is not in accordance with what Buddha taught. How many monks have disrobed because they have fallen in love and wish to be with their partner?

Sexual acts are in the 5 precepts, 8 precepts , 10 precepts and a major rule in the vinaya.
And money, drugs are not ? I do not see where you are getting here. Why are sexual pleasures not the same as other pleasures ? Because they are more powerfull ? As I said, there are drugs more powerfull in addiction than this and for many people money is a way bigger pleasure too.
Last edited by dxm_dxm on Sun Jan 31, 2016 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by Ben » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:06 am

hermitwin wrote:Sexual needs is a primal biological need. Otherwise the species would just go extinct. To describe it as something easily suppressed is simply not accurate.
It's not a need. You don't die from being celibate. And at 7bn+, I don't think the species is going to go extinct anytime soon except as a result of over-population induced consumption.
Its not a need, it's just desire.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

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forestmat
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by forestmat » Sun Jan 31, 2016 6:28 am

hermitwin wrote:This happened when Aj Chah was alive.
A school principal came to see Aj chah.
His wife had a stroke and was paralysed.
He visited a prostitute once a week and he asked aj chah whether he was breaking any precepts.
Aj chah said no.

It is easy to judge men or women who visits prostitutes/giggolo. However, if it's done to meet one's sexual needs, I dont think its breaking any precepts.

There are worse things that people do.
Repressing sexual needs , which is arguably one of the most powerful biological needs could lead to worse behaviors.

In the west, men pickup women from singles' bar. Many men lie and charm the women to get sex. Is that any better than paying a prostitute?


What's your source for this - I live in northeast Thailand and have never heard this mentioned before by either the monks at Wat Nong Pah Pong / Wat Pah Nanachat or any teachers, Thai or foreign of the tradition that was established within this lineage.

hermitwin
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by hermitwin » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:56 am

I cant remember which sutta.
Buddha said there is no greater attraction to a man than that of a woman and vice versa.

Does anyone know which sutta it is?

hermitwin
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by hermitwin » Sun Jan 31, 2016 9:59 am

My source is very reliable because I heard it from the horse's mouth.
The horse is Aj Brahmavamso. lol



forestmat wrote:
hermitwin wrote:This happened when Aj Chah was alive.
A school principal came to see Aj chah.
His wife had a stroke and was paralysed.
He visited a prostitute once a week and he asked aj chah whether he was breaking any precepts.
Aj chah said no.

It is easy to judge men or women who visits prostitutes/giggolo. However, if it's done to meet one's sexual needs, I dont think its breaking any precepts.

There are worse things that people do.
Repressing sexual needs , which is arguably one of the most powerful biological needs could lead to worse behaviors.

In the west, men pickup women from singles' bar. Many men lie and charm the women to get sex. Is that any better than paying a prostitute?


What's your source for this - I live in northeast Thailand and have never heard this mentioned before by either the monks at Wat Nong Pah Pong / Wat Pah Nanachat or any teachers, Thai or foreign of the tradition that was established within this lineage.

dagon
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by dagon » Sun Jan 31, 2016 10:45 am

hermitwin wrote:My source is very reliable because I heard it from the horse's mouth.
The horse is Aj Brahmavamso. lol

I suspect that the "story" is missing some of its original context .... :thinking:

Below is a submission to Department of the Attorney General by BCWA - I think a reserved acceptance of what happens in society - not a ringing endorsement.
i
Submission to Department of the Attorney General: Prostitution Reform Area

1 The Buddhist community of WA would like to see the drafting of a practical set of laws governing the trade of prostitution. While from a Buddhist perspective prostitution is not inherently wrong, it is so vulnerable to exploitation that the Buddhist community believes that legislation is urgently required to ensure the rights and safety of all parties.

2 From the Buddhist scriptures we know the Buddha did not look down upon any class or type of person. At one time* he accepted an invitation from Ambapali, a prostitute, for a luncheon for the Buddha and his monks and nuns. In this canonical story, the Buddha is famously remembered for accepting this invitation even though he was pressed by members of a royal family to forgo her invitation.

3 The scriptures are more than two and half thousand years old and Buddhists accept that prostitution exists in society. We believe that decriminalization of prostitution will be beneficial to both prostitutes and the general public. Some of the potential benefits would be reduction of violence and exploitation, under-aged prostitution, drug addiction, human trafficking, sexually transmitted diseases and illegal income for criminal elements. It would also give the same entitlements and protection afforded to workers of other industries.

4 Where human trafficking is discovered, action should be taken against ring-leaders while taking care to safely rehabilitate and repatriate victims. There needs to be a system which will make it possible for victims to give evidence before they are safely repatriated. Laws should protect prostitutes from being exploited financially.

5 We recognise that people may turn to prostitution out of desperate situations such as drug addiction and violence. Legislation should take this into account to help those who wish to move out of prostitution should they choose to.
additionally in the same submission
Anguttara Nikaya 5:verse 177 (on unsuitable livelihoods)


Monks, a lay Buddhist should not engage in these five trades. What five? Trade in weapons, trade in beings, trade in meat, trade in intoxicants, and trade in poisons.

(translations by Ajahn Brahmali, Bodhinyana Monastery, WA)
http://www.wa.buddhistcouncil.org.au/ho ... aw-reform/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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forestmat
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Re: Make partner sexually happy in Buddhism

Post by forestmat » Mon Feb 01, 2016 6:52 am

hermitwin wrote:My source is very reliable because I heard it from the horse's mouth.
The horse is Aj Brahmavamso. lol
I'm pretty sure there was a whole lot more to the teaching than has so far been related?

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