Physical pain and tension

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
Tom
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Physical pain and tension

Post by Tom » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:30 am

Is there a meditation technique that helps one to gain wisdom in dealing with pain/tension in the body/helps one to adjust sensations in the body in order to release tension/reduce pain.?

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Thisperson
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Thisperson » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:51 am

Bhante G's advice in this link under the ledger Problem 1 Physical Pain might be of help to you.
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma4/mpe10.html

:candle:

Tom
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Tom » Wed Dec 23, 2015 5:36 am

Sometimes I create a belief that my body is capable of inward and outward motion through it's flesh and skin, akin to breathing, where it comes from the outside into my body, and may go out as well. I'll then attempt to perform this "flesh breathing", which it actually physically sortof feels like, and it seems to reduce pain sometimes, but I'm uncomfortable about continuing it as it seems that sometimes while one area of pain may be reduced because of this, another area of pain will pop up corresponding to my conceptualization of this whole process. I'm also uncomfortable about it because I don't want to delude myself if this isn't actually happening.

Tom
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Tom » Wed Dec 23, 2015 6:43 am

Given the above description how can I attempt to create sensations in my body harmlessly to get rid of pain/tension and avoid deluding myself? Should I not attempt to create sensations and just let the pain be?

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Ben
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Ben » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:20 am

Tom wrote:Given the above description how can I attempt to create sensations in my body harmlessly to get rid of pain/tension and avoid deluding myself? Should I not attempt to create sensations and just let the pain be?
I would stick to tried and tested meditation practices. You can't create sensations and I suspect what you maybe engaging in is deluded thinking. Meditation objects within the Theravada are designed to develop concentrated awareness by maintaining continuous awareness of a meditation object, or develop penetrative insight into the ultimate nature of phenomenology of experience by remaining aware of one of the three marks of existence Such as the anicca, dukkha or anatta characteristic of that object. Imagination plays no part, sorry.
All the best,
Ben
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kirk5a
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by kirk5a » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:39 pm

Have a look at Ajahn Lee's Method 2.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ml#method2
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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kirk5a
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by kirk5a » Wed Dec 23, 2015 2:45 pm

Ben wrote:Imagination plays no part, sorry.
I disagree. The sections of the Satipatthana Sutta, for example, concerning the body contents, and the cemetery contemplations both inherently involve the use of imagination.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

dagon
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by dagon » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:40 pm

kirk5a wrote:
Ben wrote:Imagination plays no part, sorry.
I disagree. The sections of the Satipatthana Sutta, for example, concerning the body contents, and the cemetery contemplations both inherently involve the use of imagination.
Hi Kirk

Do you think that the body contents, and the cemetery contemplations use imagination or visualisation? Body parts and the body in decay are know to us to some extent or can easily be viewed - where as to seek to create a sensation would be less straight forward.

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kirk5a
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by kirk5a » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:59 pm

dagon wrote:Do you think that the body contents, and the cemetery contemplations use imagination or visualisation?
I do, yes.
Body parts and the body in decay are know to us to some extent or can easily be viewed - where as to seek to create a sensation would be less straight forward.
To some extent. Can't see the small intestines though.

The context here is tension and pain reduction, I believe. Which is different than creating sensations. Even so, as for whether sensations can be deliberately created, they can. From the anapanasati sutta:
He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.'
Consider further the scope of the "wind property" in the body.
"And what is the wind property? The wind property may be either internal or external. What is the internal wind property? Anything internal, belonging to oneself, that's wind, windy, & sustained: up-going winds, down-going winds, winds in the stomach, winds in the intestines, winds that course through the body, in-and-out breathing, or anything else internal, within oneself, that's wind, windy, & sustained: This is called the internal wind property.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Pinetree
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Pinetree » Thu Dec 24, 2015 12:01 pm

Something you can look into. The video explains how aversion towards pain creates suffering, beyond the pain itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BldDclolLCg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tom
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Tom » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:28 am

Should one try to be constantly aware of the muscle movements involved in moving one's body, for example lifting up one's arm?

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The Thinker
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by The Thinker » Sat Dec 26, 2015 11:43 am

Hello all,

I agree with Kirk5a, imagination is part of the workings of mind, and ignorance of it is plain wrong, the buddha concentrated on suffering and gave his advice on possibly easing that suffering, he used his own imagination at some point methinks,the Buddha was not a medical prof, nor a mathematician,nor a carpenter, the use of visualisation was involved, hypnosis not yet conceived in his time, advances in education should not be ignored and the helpful benefits are spoken of. (true or false?)
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

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The Thinker
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by The Thinker » Sat Dec 26, 2015 12:13 pm

Not wanting to introduce disturbing images to the forum, but the training in meditative practice and mindfulness and will power, have been witnessed on youtube videos of individuals overcoming great pain and remaining still before death itself, so I do conceive that the simple standard training suggested by Ben can be of a great beneficial help, but this may take time if you are willing to persevere.
"Watch your heart, observe. Be the observer, be the knower, not the condition" Ajahn Sumedho volume5 - The Wheel Of Truth

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lionking
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by lionking » Sun Dec 27, 2015 2:29 am

What are the mechanics of pain?

The consciousness is responsible for creating your entire physical being. The consciousness appears to give itself a bundle of energy at birth. This allows itself the freedom to decide at the very lower levels of consciousness. The consciousness also regulates laws that govern your existence. The laws such as Karma-Vipaka at higher level and things like gravity at lower levels. This orchestration of energy by the consciousness is what is generally known as the "Dhamma".

All matter and things you experience including pain are therefore conditioned phenomena. How it gets conditioned is an enigma to a large degree. Certain conditioning is obvious within laws of Karma-Vipaka. Your pain is perhaps a result of an action your non-consciousness mind took at an earlier stage of your being.

It appears as if you have been judged thus suffer the consequences. The consciousness does not know right/wrong. So why does it appear to punish you for your bad deeds? It only abide by principles that apply to energy. So it knows only how to conserve itself within the state of self. So greed, delusion and anger are OK as far as the consciousness is concerned. These creates a platform for its existence.

However, it also controls excesses with laws of Karma-Vipaka. So you are allowed to be greedy but not hurt another consciousness in the process. You are allowed to be greedy to eat and sustain life. However you are not allowed to over-indulge. You are allowed to sleep and give yourself a break. However you are not allowed to turn the consciousness off permanently and dive into Anatta. The Karma-Vipaka controls the excesses and keeps you from escaping from yourself permanently.

So how do you escape this trap? Buddha before enlightenment suffered for 6 years nearly starved to death. The excesses did not help. He had to return to moderation and gave the fuel needed for the consciousness to sustain itself. He then destroyed the consciousness from within such that it does not switch to another universe after the demise of his physical being.

It appears wise to obey rules set by the consciousness. If its giving pain simply understand its controlling excesses. Find a way to control pain but avoid suicide unless you know you have turned off the consciousness permanently.
grr ..

Tom
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Re: Physical pain and tension

Post by Tom » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:37 am

kirk5a wrote:
dagon wrote:Do you think that the body contents, and the cemetery contemplations use imagination or visualisation?
I do, yes.
Body parts and the body in decay are know to us to some extent or can easily be viewed - where as to seek to create a sensation would be less straight forward.
To some extent. Can't see the small intestines though.

The context here is tension and pain reduction, I believe. Which is different than creating sensations. Even so, as for whether sensations can be deliberately created, they can. From the anapanasati sutta:
He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.'
Consider further the scope of the "wind property" in the body.
"And what is the wind property? The wind property may be either internal or external. What is the internal wind property? Anything internal, belonging to oneself, that's wind, windy, & sustained: up-going winds, down-going winds, winds in the stomach, winds in the intestines, winds that course through the body, in-and-out breathing, or anything else internal, within oneself, that's wind, windy, & sustained: This is called the internal wind property.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
Is there a way of working with the "wind element"/other elements that allows one to be more in tune with his or her body and become skillful in creating a sense of ease within the body without deluding oneself in the process?

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