Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

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Sati1
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Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by Sati1 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:19 am

Hello,

I am looking for a reference in which it is mentioned that Buddha teaches in such a way that his students can leave as quickly as possible (rather than him getting entangled in lenghty discussions or in their affairs).

Thank you,
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

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daverupa
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by daverupa » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:10 am

AN 8.30 wrote:Here, when a bhikkhu resorts to solitude, bhikkhus, bhikkhunīs, male lay followers, female lay followers, kings, royal ministers, heads of other sects, and disciples belonging to other sects approach him. In each case, with a mind that slants, slopes, and inclines to seclusion, withdrawn, delighting in renunciation, he gives them a talk invariably concerned with dismissing them. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.
:thinking:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

SarathW
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by SarathW » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:22 am

Thanks Dev
Why are you thinking?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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daverupa
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by daverupa » Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:25 am

Maybe there's another one they had in mind.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Sati1
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by Sati1 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:52 pm

Dear Dave,

Thank you. I thought that there was a similar sutta about Buddha speaking "to dismiss his listeners", but this one is already very helpful.

With metta,
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:23 pm

I do recall something like that. Wanting them to leave as soon as possible, or some such.

:anjali:
Mike

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daverupa
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by daverupa » Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:41 pm

MN 122 wrote:“However, Ānanda, there is this abiding discovered by the Tathāgata: to enter and abide in voidness internally by giving no attention to all signs. If, while the Tathāgata is abiding thus, he is visited by bhikkhus or bhikkhunīs, by men or women lay followers, by kings or kings’ ministers, by other sectarians or their disciples, then with a mind leaning to seclusion, tending and inclining to seclusion, withdrawn, delighting in renunciation, and altogether done away with things that are the basis for taints, he invariably talks to them in a way concerned with dismissing them.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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mikenz66
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by mikenz66 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:05 pm

Yes, that's it.

:anjali:
Mike

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Sati1
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by Sati1 » Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Yes, thank you, Dave.
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

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waterchan
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by waterchan » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:43 pm

daverupa wrote:
MN 122 wrote:“However, Ānanda, there is this abiding discovered by the Tathāgata: to enter and abide in voidness internally by giving no attention to all signs. If, while the Tathāgata is abiding thus, he is visited by bhikkhus or bhikkhunīs, by men or women lay followers, by kings or kings’ ministers, by other sectarians or their disciples, then with a mind leaning to seclusion, tending and inclining to seclusion, withdrawn, delighting in renunciation, and altogether done away with things that are the basis for taints, he invariably talks to them in a way concerned with dismissing them.
In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?

LXNDR
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by LXNDR » Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:45 pm

waterchan wrote:
daverupa wrote:
MN 122 wrote:“However, Ānanda, there is this abiding discovered by the Tathāgata: to enter and abide in voidness internally by giving no attention to all signs. If, while the Tathāgata is abiding thus, he is visited by bhikkhus or bhikkhunīs, by men or women lay followers, by kings or kings’ ministers, by other sectarians or their disciples, then with a mind leaning to seclusion, tending and inclining to seclusion, withdrawn, delighting in renunciation, and altogether done away with things that are the basis for taints, he invariably talks to them in a way concerned with dismissing them.
In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
i too feel this overtone

quite odd

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Dhammanando
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:18 am

It's mentioned also as the third of the eight great thoughts:
  • “When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company,’ with reference to what was this said? Here, when a bhikkhu resorts to solitude, bhikkhus, bhikkhunīs, male lay followers, female lay followers, kings, royal ministers, heads of other sects, and disciples belonging to other sects approach him. In each case, with a mind that slants, slopes, and inclines to seclusion, withdrawn, delighting in renunciation, he gives them a talk invariably concerned with dismissing them. When it was said: ‘This Dhamma is for one who resorts to solitude, not for one who delights in company,’ it is with reference to this that this was said.

    https://suttacentral.net/en/an8.30
On retreat and offline May 22 - July 10.

„Sedem solitariam, cubitum solitarium
solitarius colens non segnis,
solitarius semet ipse domans
in sylva extrema delectatus sit.“

(Dhammapada 305. tr. Viggo Fausbøll. 1855)

SarathW
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by SarathW » Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:46 am

In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
i too feel this overtone

quite odd
I do not think so.
It is just giving the answer directly to the relevant question without extending the talk with unnecessary issues.
That means not to socialise with them.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:22 am

waterchan wrote:In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
Even curter according to the Majjhima Atthakathā. Simply: "Go away!"
On retreat and offline May 22 - July 10.

„Sedem solitariam, cubitum solitarium
solitarius colens non segnis,
solitarius semet ipse domans
in sylva extrema delectatus sit.“

(Dhammapada 305. tr. Viggo Fausbøll. 1855)

SarathW
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by SarathW » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:31 am

Dhammanando wrote:
waterchan wrote:In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
Even curter according to the Majjhima Atthakathā. Simply: "Go away!"
Can you give the Sutta reference?
Please do not say '"go away""!
:)
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Dhammanando
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by Dhammanando » Wed Jul 01, 2015 4:47 am

SarathW wrote:
Dhammanando wrote:
waterchan wrote:In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
Even curter according to the Majjhima Atthakathā. Simply: "Go away!"
Can you give the Sutta reference?
The Sutta reference has already been given: the Mahāsuññatasutta (M. iii. 111).

What I referred to was the commentary to this, in which the words "talk invariably concerned with dismissing them" are glossed as gacchatha tumhe, "You go away!" (MA. iv. 160)
On retreat and offline May 22 - July 10.

„Sedem solitariam, cubitum solitarium
solitarius colens non segnis,
solitarius semet ipse domans
in sylva extrema delectatus sit.“

(Dhammapada 305. tr. Viggo Fausbøll. 1855)

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waterchan
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by waterchan » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:29 am

Dhammanando wrote:
waterchan wrote:In other words, "Go away, I'm meditating"?
Even curter according to the Majjhima Atthakathā. Simply: "Go away!"
To be fair he did give longer discourses when he felt like it. I guess the Buddha had his days too.

LXNDR
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching sought

Post by LXNDR » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:36 am

that is probably the reason why in some suttas advanced disciples are asked to explain 'the detailed meaning of this brief statement'
waterchan wrote:I guess the Buddha had his days too.
there're a few passages which made me scringe with discomfort

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Mr Man
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by Mr Man » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:45 am

Perhaps the Buddha didn't wish pander to our tendency to intellectual indulgence? Should we be taking heed?
Last edited by Mr Man on Wed Jul 01, 2015 11:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bundokji
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Re: Sutta reference on Buddha teaching so students leave quickly

Post by Bundokji » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:11 am

Once Ajahn Chah was asked:
Q: Why don't we have daily interviews with the teacher?
And he answered:
Answer: If you have any questions, you are welcome to come and ask them anytime. But we don't need daily interviews here. If I answer your every little question, you will never understand the process of doubt in your own mind. It is essential that you learn to examine yourself, to interview yourself. Listen carefully to the lecture every few days, then use this teaching to compare with your own practice. Is it still the same? Is it different? Why do you have doubts? Who is it that doubts? Only through self-examination can you understand.
Peace :anjali:
And the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus, saying: "Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness!"

This was the last word of the Tathagata.

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