Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
cookiemonster
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:42 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by cookiemonster » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:20 am

Aloka wrote:
cookiemonster wrote:Is this skepticism towards this teacher, or towards the existence of Brahma Sahampati?

I've prayed to Brahma and received answered prayers.
Can you say a little more about this please, cookiemonster? Do you see Brahma or hear him speaking to to you ?

....and did you receive some cookies ?

.
Hello Aloka, unfortunately he didn't give me any cookies! :lol:

Like Lord Buddha stated in the Ratana Sutta: "Whatever beings (non-humans) are assembled here, terrestrial or celestial, may they all have peace of mind, and may they listen attentively to these words: O beings, listen closely. May you all radiate loving-kindness to those human beings who, by day and night, bring offerings to you (offer merit to you). Wherefore, protect them with diligence." http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... html#khp-6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I take that to mean that celestial beings like the various devas and Brahmas do exist. I do not believe they are omnipotent or omniscient but I do believe that they possess great power, and can and do protect Buddhists who share merits with them.

I pray specifically to Lord Brahma Sahampati or Lord Sakka, as I believe I've read in the suttas that they have achieved one of the four levels of awakening and are Buddhist protectors. When I pray to them, I try not to ask for selfish reasons, but only for Buddhist-compatible reasons (like alleviating suffering or to help others or myself to walk the noble eightfold path in some way). I ask for their assistance in Lord Buddha's name, and I also offer to share my merit with them, and to honor their names. So far, I've had many prayers answered in this way.

I have not heard or seen Brahma directly yet, but I believe that's because I haven't achieved jhanic mastery yet; I fully expect to when I do. :twothumbsup:

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by SarathW » Fri Jun 12, 2015 12:55 am

Hi Retro
In regard to Metta to your self, I have some concerns about your post.
Don't you consider yourself as a being?
Irrespective of what Sutta says or the Visuddimaga says, I think Metta to yourself is a very important thing.
I have seen many who close to me committed suicide or involve with self harming.
One of them were very dedicated Buddhist.
If they knew Metta to themselves they would not have harm themselves.
:thinking:
PS: This topic deserves a new thread.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
retrofuturist
Site Admin
Posts: 20167
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 9:52 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by retrofuturist » Fri Jun 12, 2015 2:30 am

Greetings Sarath,
SarathW wrote:Irrespective of what Sutta says or the Visuddimaga says, I think Metta to yourself is a very important thing.
In short, if metta is being cultivated it is already being experienced.

What is superfluous is "directing" what is already being experienced towards a "me". (Consider from an Abhidhammic perspective what this entails)
SarathW wrote:This topic deserves a new thread.
Feel free to start one if you like.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

User avatar
Bhikkhu Pesala
Posts: 3754
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:17 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:45 am

retrofuturist wrote:What is superfluous is "directing" what is already being experienced towards a "me". (Consider from an Abhidhammic perspective what this entails))
Don't mix up conventional truth with absolute truth. The Buddha advised “Take oneself as one's own refuge, take no other refuge,” (attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā) etc., he did not advise us to take refuge in the five aggregates.

To practice loving-kindness one must have a concept of a being or person, a man or a woman. It is tranquillity meditation (samatha).
  • Ahaṃ avero homi: may I be free from ill-will.
  • Abyāpajjo homi: may I be free from enmity.
  • Anīgho homi: may I be free from affliction.
  • Sukhī attānaṃ pariharāmi: may I be happy.
  • Dukkhā muccāmi: may I be free from suffering.
  • Yathā-laddha-sampattito mā vigacchāmi: may I not be parted from the good fortune I have attained.
  • Kammassako: I am the owner of my kamma and must inherit its results.
Without a concept of a being loving-kindness will be ineffective. In preparation for practising metta towards an enemy, one can defuse the anger by contemplating that person as the five aggregates: “With what am I angry? Those harsh words that he spoke have already ceased long ago, so why am I still angry with him now?” etc. When broken down into elements, anger finds no foothold. Likewise, if we break a person down into elements, loving-kindness will find no foothold.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

SarathW
Posts: 10514
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by SarathW » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:36 am

Bhante
Is there a Sutta Reference for this?
:bow:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Sati1
Posts: 319
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:54 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Sati1 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:15 am

Dear cookiemonster,

rather than present a sceptical position, I was just trying to describe what happened at the retreat. As I mentioned in a post that followed the OP, I actually believe that much of what he said is true (eg. that Brahma Sahampati exists and that he might have some degree of influence on Earth). It was more how the teacher used this information as a tool to direct students.

Dear Ben,

I agree with you and certainly don't intend to go back to any of his teachings or retreats. My suspicion is that the teacher genuinely hears voices in his head, which he has come to believe are the voices of Brahma gods (not just Sahampati).

I forgot to mention that another thing that was said at the session is that the hell realms are on Mars and on the moons of Jupiter, which he visited with a mind-made body. They cannot be seen by telescopes because they are hidden under the crust of the planet or moon.
Sati1
London, UK

----
"I do not perceive even one other thing, o monks, that when developed and cultivated entails such great happiness as the mind" (AN 1.10, transl. Ven. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
"So this spiritual life, monks, does not have gain, honor, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of moral discipline for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakable liberation of mind that is the goal of this spiritual life, its heartwood, and its end," (MN 29, transl. Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi)

User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 5800
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Aloka » Fri Jun 12, 2015 8:06 am

Sati1 wrote:
I forgot to mention that another thing that was said at the session is that the hell realms are on Mars and on the moons of Jupiter, which he visited with a mind-made body. They cannot be seen by telescopes because they are hidden under the crust of the planet or moon.
Image


Sorry, couldn't resist!

:anjali:

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Dan74 » Fri Jun 12, 2015 10:25 am

Sounds like a very disturbed person.

Sometimes practice without proper guidance can bring to the fore latent mental health conditions. I've seen it happen once and heard many times. I hope he gets some help.
_/|\_

User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by lyndon taylor » Fri Jun 12, 2015 5:20 pm

By that logic the Buddha would be considered a nut job too!!
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/

User avatar
waterchan
Posts: 699
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 7:17 pm
Location: Kamaloka

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by waterchan » Fri Jun 12, 2015 6:43 pm

lyndon taylor wrote:By that logic the Buddha would be considered a nut job too!!
Indeed he was considered a nut job when he began his teaching career.

From MN 26:
(The Buddha, shortly after his awakening:) "When this was said, I replied to Upaka the Ajivaka in verses:

'All-vanquishing,
all-knowing am I,
with regard to all things,
unadhering.
All-abandoning,
released in the ending of craving:
having fully known on my own,
to whom should I point as my teacher? [4]

I have no teacher,
and one like me can't be found.
In the world with its devas,
I have no counterpart.

For I am an arahant in the world;
I, the unexcelled teacher.
I, alone, am rightly self-awakened.
Cooled am I, unbound.

To set rolling the wheel of Dhamma
I go to the city of Kasi.
In a world become blind,
I beat the drum of the Deathless.'

(Upaka the Ajivaka replies:) "'From your claims, my friend, you must be an infinite conqueror.'

'Conquerors are those like me
who have reached fermentations' end.
I've conquered evil qualities,
and so, Upaka, I'm a conqueror.'

"When this was said, Upaka said, 'May it be so, my friend,' and — shaking his head, taking a side-road — he left.
Over time he successfully proved to many that he wasn't a nut job. Likewise, it's up to Dr. Ranatunga to convince us that he's authentic, if he wishes.

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Dan74 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 3:30 am

lyndon taylor wrote:By that logic the Buddha would be considered a nut job too!!
I don't recall the Buddha teaching the 6 Century BC equivalent of what this gentleman says about the hell realms. Come on, Folks!
_/|\_

cookiemonster
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:42 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by cookiemonster » Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:38 am

Dan74 wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:By that logic the Buddha would be considered a nut job too!!
I don't recall the Buddha teaching the 6 Century BC equivalent of what this gentleman says about realms. Come on, Folks!
Wait ... are you saying that the Buddha didn't teach about the various lokas and their inhabitants?

User avatar
Dan74
Posts: 3012
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Dan74 » Sat Jun 13, 2015 8:57 am

I don't think the Buddha taught that the lokas were a thousand leagues away behind the big mountain. And that would actually have been less nonsensical given the state of knowledge then and now.
_/|\_

Atman1
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:41 pm

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Atman1 » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:47 pm

This guy sounds really odd but if his participants find it useful, and they aren't hurting anyone, I don't see what the problem is. Probably a bit too weird for me though. :smile:

Kumara1
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:29 am

Re: Teacher claims to receive teachings from Brahma god

Post by Kumara1 » Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:20 pm

:-)
Last edited by Kumara1 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Garrib, justindesilva and 96 guests