Sexual misconduct and prostitute

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
daverupa
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by daverupa »

Mr Man wrote:But I imagine you won't see it.
I don't see any encouragement for prostitution of any kind, and in fact I see a clear statement that all sexual activity is off-target.
In my opinion the post is also misogynistic.
The snarky finale was perhaps unwarranted, but the ongoing intensity with which Xian/et al morals parade as Buddhist ones on this topic is at least equally bewildering.

Paying for access to sensuality is the baseline act here, whether one pays a masseuse or a prostitute or a chef.

Sex is a version of sensuality. Now, this thread is full of people detailing the reasons how & why prostitution largely occurs in very unfortunate situations, and thus how it is unavoidably a very unwholesome scenario these days. That's perfectly suitable information - we aren't living in Iron Age India, when the precept was formulated, and so this bare-minimum third-precept ethical standard has aspects which are now superceded by certain social realities.

It's simply not something that gets a categorical response, the way a Xian would: "Prostitution is a sin, never to be engaged with, altogether against the Holy Will."
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Mr Man
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by Mr Man »

daverupa wrote:
Mr Man wrote:But I imagine you won't see it.
I don't see any encouragement for prostitution of any kind, and in fact I see a clear statement that all sexual activity is off-target.
Well I am a bit bewildered by that. Lets cut it down: "having sex with a prostitute is no more unskilful than having sex with one’s wife. In fact in some respects it might even be less unskilful." It says "having sex with a prostitute is no more unskilful than having sex with one’s wife. In fact in some respects it might even be less unskilful."

And what has Christianity got to do with anything?
daverupa
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by daverupa »

Mr Man wrote:Lets cut it down
You've shown two unwholesome acts being contrasted, neither one of them being encouraged.
Mr Man wrote:And what has Christianity got to do with anything?
Attitudes about prostitution uninformed by a close examination of the Dhamma occur in both Xianity and this thread.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by lyndon taylor »

So now you're saying sex with your wife is an unwholesome act not encouraged by Buddhism???

If so why wasn't anyone making that statement about prostitution, because prostitution is better than sex with your wife??
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
daverupa
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by daverupa »

lyndon taylor wrote:So now you're saying sex with your wife is an unwholesome act not encouraged by Buddhism???
Sex is not encouraged at all by Buddhism. Not at all. Not on one's own, not with another. Sexuality is bondage.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
rohana
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by rohana »

lyndon taylor wrote:So now you're saying sex with your wife is an unwholesome act not encouraged by Buddhism???
Of course.
  • “Householder, suppose a dog, overcome by hunger and weakness, was waiting by a butcher’s shop. Then a skilled butcher or his apprentice would toss the dog a well hacked, clean hacked skeleton of meatless bones smeared with blood. What do you think, householder? Would that dog get rid of his hunger and weakness by gnawing such a well hacked, clean hacked skeleton of meatless bones smeared with blood?”
    “No, venerable sir. Why is that? Because that was a skeleton of well hacked, clean hacked meatless bones smeared with blood. Eventually that dog would reap weariness and disappointment.”
    “So too, householder, a noble disciple considers thus: ‘Sensual pleasures have been compared to a skeleton by the Blessed One; they provide much suffering and much despair, while the danger in them is great.’"
    • - Pōtaliya Sutta
As I said in a previous post:
rohana wrote:Unlike many Abrahamic traditions, where marriage and spirituality are closely linked, in Buddhism you get no spiritual value from marriage itself. How you treat people (including your partner if you're married) is what matters.
Let's also keep in mind that the notion of romantic love as a basis for marriage is an extremely novel idea.
Last edited by rohana on Fri May 29, 2015 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43
rohana
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by rohana »

Anagarika wrote: ...

It's interesting to me, as well, that the Vinaya rules regarding monks and alcohol use and sexual activity were developed after the Sangha had formed, long after the Buddha rose up from his seat at the Bodhi tree. As I recall (imperfectly), the rule against consuming alcohol was instituted after one of the monks returned from his alms round intoxicated, and fell asleep in the assembly. The rule of celibacy was instituted after a monk was persuaded to have sex with his former wife to create an heir in his family. These laws developed as a matter of maintaining order in the Sangha, and did not arise out of some moral absolute that the Buddha imposed immediately after his enlightenment. Thus, to the extent that we impose our puritanical views on the Dhamma, we are only projecting these views into a legal framework that has at its center, as I argue, personal volition and the cultivation of mindful and skillful acts at its core.
:goodpost:
"Delighting in existence, O monks, are gods and men; they are attached to existence, they revel in existence. When the Dhamma for the cessation of existence is being preached to them, their minds do not leap towards it, do not get pleased with it, do not get settled in it, do not find confidence in it. That is how, monks, some lag behind."
- It. p 43
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by lyndon taylor »

Its important to distinguish about things said about sex to monks and things said about sex and family life directed at lay people.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by tiltbillings »

daverupa wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:So now you're saying sex with your wife is an unwholesome act not encouraged by Buddhism???
Sex is not encouraged at all by Buddhism. Not at all. Not on one's own, not with another. Sexuality is bondage.
Naughty sexuality.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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tiltbillings
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by tiltbillings »

lyndon taylor wrote:Its important to distinguish about things said about sex to monks and things said about sex and family life directed at lay people.
And this is a very important distinction that must be made.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mr Man
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by Mr Man »

daverupa wrote:
You've shown two unwholesome acts being contrasted, neither one of them being encouraged.
And one "might even be less unskilful" So I'm going to have sex, should I have it with my wife or should I have it with a prostitute? which one is less unskilful? Now of course there could be different scenarios. Bhante's suggestion was that "there’s far less deceit and hypocrisy involved in it"

Attitudes about prostitution uninformed by a close examination of the Dhamma occur in both Xianity and this thread.
So your attitude to prostitution , which is what? "About as skillful as hitting a singles bar"? is based in Dhamma?
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lyndon taylor
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by lyndon taylor »

I think some of the comments have more to do with secular western philosophy than Dhamma.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
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Aloka
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by Aloka »

tiltbillings wrote: Naughty sexuality.
I think it might be worth noting that if all the men & women on this planet decided not to have any more sex, then human beings would become extinct .

:anjali:
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Nicolas
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by Nicolas »

Aloka wrote:I think it might be worth noting that if all the men & women on this planet decided not to have any more sex, then human beings would become extinct.
So?
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Aloka
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Re: Sexual misconduct and prostitute

Post by Aloka »

Nicolas wrote: So?

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