What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Aloka
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Aloka » Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:33 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
wildpreciouslife wrote:Nonsense teachings and sexism will be the death of Buddhism.
I agree.
wildpreciouslife wrote: The Buddha has brought the message of liberation to our world. Please don't cut women down, please don't let dhamma die.
Metta.
:thumbsup:

The Buddha was asked in so many words, "is there even one woman nun who is fully enlightened?" The Buddha responded, "There are not only one hundred . . . or five hundred, but far more bhikkhunis, my disciples, who by realizing for themselves with direct knowledge here and now enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind and deliverance by wisdom . . ." Sutta 73 Majjhima Nikaya and also in other suttas too.
:goodpost:

.

SarathW
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by SarathW » Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:01 pm

rohana wrote:Isn't it the case that in general, women tend to keep better sīla than men? When it comes to murder, stealing, and alcoholism ( and especially in most Asian countries when it comes to drinking ) the culprit is more likely to be male than female. It seems that in most places, the cultural environment makes it easier for women to keep good sīla. Also, I think both Pa-Auk Sayadāw and Dīpa Mā have indicated that women tend to have an easier time with meditation than men. So whatever kamma produces the female-form, it makes for a good ground for dhamma practice it seems, even more so than being granted a male-form.

"Karma and Female Rebirth" by Bhikkhu Anālayo is useful reading here.
The thought that women are better in keeping Sila than men also getting to the same pitfall as the thought men are better in keeping Sila than women.

When I go to a Sri Lankan temple I see many women observing Uposatha than men. It is hard to find a man not drinking alcohol. It is hard to find a women drinking alcohol. Only outing for a village woman is to go to the temple.

When I go to a temple in a western country I see equal amount of men and women are observing Upostha. Sometime more men than women.
Generally both women and men drink alcohol. Now days you find more women in a pub than men. Women like to go shopping than going to a temple.
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Cittasanto » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:26 am

Hi SarathW, Bhante...
SarathW wrote:I do not think male is superior to female.
Being a human is the most important of all.
If both can attain the ultimate goal Nibbana, as Buddhist we can't say male is superior to the female.
Perhaps there could be some disadvantages and advantages being a male or female.
I think according to Buddhist teaching, people are born as rich or poor also due to past Kamma.
:thinking:
Just my take on what has been pointed out in relation to this post.
We are a sexually dimorphic species, just like many other species. Due to this males and females have different capabilities, interests... (in general, although their are exceptions, and for examples i'll point people to military standards for men and women and eyesight differences). I do not think we can put it down to physical aspects only and we need to bare in mind that men and women are (in some part) different mentally also.We can take the strength of the indria as inclining toward one sex over the other and the exceptions as being different strengths and kammic factors being at play.
I do not believe any being (with the exception of those who have committed matricide...) are denied nibbana in this life. I know of no core text that says hell beings are incapable of nibbana, although they have a diminished capacity, and higher order beings have an equally lower ability for pretty much the same (although opposing experience) reasons.

the sentiment of superior may simply be a cultural, or other, rather than anything else, inclusion.

Kind Regard
Cittasanto.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
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chownah
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by chownah » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:04 am

Thinking that men are like this and women are like that is always wrong. There is no such thing as women and there is no such thing as men......there are just individual people each being different.
chownah

Feathers
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Feathers » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:01 am

chownah wrote:Thinking that men are like this and women are like that is always wrong. There is no such thing as women and there is no such thing as men......there are just individual people each being different.
chownah
:goodpost:

Perhaps risky to quote Dogen here but:
Before becoming free from delusion, men and women are equally not free from delusion. At the time of becoming free from delusion and realising the truth, there is no difference between men and women. Source
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SarathW
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by SarathW » Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:11 am

Arahants do not have gender identification.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Cittasanto » Tue May 05, 2015 6:30 am

just came accross this while browsing Ven Analayo's published works.
https://www.buddhismuskunde.uni-hamburg ... female.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

it starts on page 5 of the PDF.
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Zom
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Zom » Tue May 05, 2015 10:09 am

However I have to say I am disappointed that the only responses given have been drawn from the Abhidhamma and Buddhaghosa, which may be much later texts. What was or would be the Buddha's opinion this?
I wonder why no one mentioned this sutta. I think it has a strong clue: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, by the way, there is a passage somewhere in Digha Nikaya where it is said that one woman was reborn as male deva because "she has developed manly (masculine) mind".

Also, I think thai society is full of "3rd gender persons" because of all those female wishes "to become a man/monk" in future lives. As a result, their transformation process is fulfilled partly - they get male body but their mind is still female :tongue:

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Cittasanto
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Cittasanto » Thu May 07, 2015 6:18 am

Hi Zom
Zom wrote:I wonder why no one mentioned this sutta. I think it has a strong clue: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And, by the way, there is a passage somewhere in Digha Nikaya where it is said that one woman was reborn as male deva because "she has developed manly (masculine) mind".

Also, I think thai society is full of "3rd gender persons" because of all those female wishes "to become a man/monk" in future lives. As a result, their transformation process is fulfilled partly - they get male body but their mind is still female :tongue:
And what does this Highlighted portion) mean precisely

Kind Regards
Cittasanto
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He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
John Stuart Mill

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Zom
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Re: What is the Kamma relate to gender differentiation?

Post by Zom » Thu May 07, 2015 9:29 am

And what does this Highlighted portion) mean precisely
Sutta gives no comments.
But everyone knows that there is a certain difference between man and woman thinking, women are more emotional, men are more rational, etc. This one supposition. Second is that it is connected with self-perception (I gave link to the sutta above).

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