Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

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Jeffrey
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Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Jeffrey » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:29 am

V Gastro Bar Trio Sentenced to 2.5 Years, Hard Labor


https://www.facebook.com/theirrawaddy/p ... 345426390/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:56 pm

Now they will be able to listen to "Rock Music."
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daverupa
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by daverupa » Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:51 pm

Utterly foolish behavior from the authorities, alas. Sigh.

religious countries
- no matter which one -
encourage the thoughtful
to pick up & run

Image
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

Bakmoon
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Bakmoon » Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:02 pm

Whenever this kind of thing happens I remember the opening of the Brahmajala Sutta.
5. "If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should not give way to resentment, displeasure, or animosity against them in your heart. For if you were to become angry or upset in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If you were to become angry or upset when others speak in dispraise of us, would you be able to recognize whether their statements are rightly or wrongly spoken?"

"Certainly not, Lord."

"If, bhikkhus, others speak in dispraise of me, or in dispraise of the Dhamma, or in dispraise of the Sangha, you should unravel what is false and point it out as false, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is false, this is untrue, there is no such thing in us, this is not found among us.'

6. "And if, bhikkhus, others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should not give way to jubilation, joy, and exultation in your heart. For if you were to become jubilant, joyful, and exultant in such a situation, you would only be creating an obstacle for yourselves. If others speak in praise of me, or in praise of the Dhamma, or in praise of the Sangha, you should acknowledge what is fact as fact, saying: 'For such and such a reason this is a fact, this is true, there is such a thing in us, this is found among us.'
Getting angry and upset over insults is the true mockery of Buddhism.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:46 pm

The issues are unrelated. The Buddha's advice to his followers is not to get angry whatever others say about him.

The law of the land is made to maintain harmony and peace in the country. Actions like putting a set of headphones on a Buddha image, or women kissing a Buddha image, or sitting on its lap, are likely to cause serious offence to the natives.

Cf. the story of Roja the Malla, who was threatened with a substantial fine if he did not turn up to greet the Buddha. It was not the Buddha's wish that everyone should be punished for not visiting him. It was a law made by the local governors to maintain social order.

Tourists visiting foreign countries should not be so stupid, let alone someone setting up a business there. It's a harsh penalty, for sure, by western standards, but the Burmese don't live by western standards, nor should they have to. When Westerners visit Burma, they should abide by Burmese standards, or face the consequences.
BlogPāli FontsIn This Very LifeBuddhist ChroniclesSoftware (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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daverupa
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by daverupa » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:10 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:When Westerners visit Burma, they should abide by Burmese standards, or face the consequences.
So this is a Burmese upset over Burmese values. Fine; it's inappropriate for anyone to say it's due to Buddha-respect when it's due to Nation-State Pride.
Paw Shwe wrote:The verdict is fair. This punishment will deter others from insulting Buddhism or other religion.
:?
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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mikenz66
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:44 pm

daverupa wrote: So this is a Burmese upset over Burmese values. Fine; it's inappropriate for anyone to say it's due to Buddha-respect when it's due to Nation-State Pride.
I don't think that these are separable issues for Burmese, Thai, etc. It's a complex intertwining of religion and culture.

:anjali:
Mike

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daverupa
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by daverupa » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:20 pm

mikenz66 wrote:I don't think that these are separable issues for Burmese, Thai, etc.
That means Buddhist Nationalism. This is disgusting to me, so far as I've seen it play out; I'll bow out of the thread now.
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]

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Mr Man
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Mr Man » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:20 pm

The sentence is harsh.

SarathW
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by SarathW » Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:34 pm

How is this different to Muslims get angry when people mock at Mohamed?
:thinking:

Relevant link:
What is freedom of speech?


http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... it=Freedom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Phena
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Phena » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:06 pm

daverupa wrote:Utterly foolish behavior from the authorities, alas. Sigh.

religious countries
- no matter which one -
encourage the thoughtful
to pick up & run

Image
I agree entirely daverupa. This is heading down a very dangerous and fundamentalist path.

This has nothing to do with protecting Buddhadhamma. As if it needs protecting from such inconsequential matters.

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cooran
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by cooran » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:09 pm

Actual image

Image
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Mkoll
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Mkoll » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:14 pm

Mr Man wrote:The sentence is harsh.
Definitely. The punishment does not fit the crime at all. I'm not a lawyer and I'm just guessing, but it seems severe enough to possibly be a violation of international human rights law
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

Phena
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by Phena » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:16 pm

SarathW wrote:How is this different to Muslims get angry when people mock at Mohamed?
:thinking:

Relevant link:
What is freedom of speech?


http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... it=Freedom" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Exactly SarathW. There is no difference. This is what makes it so disturbing.

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SDC
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Re: Myanmar: the state mocks its own religion

Post by SDC » Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:32 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Tourists visiting foreign countries should not be so stupid, let alone someone setting up a business there. It's a harsh penalty, for sure, by western standards, but the Burmese don't live by western standards, nor should they have to. When Westerners visit Burma, they should abide by Burmese standards, or face the consequences.
Agreed.

The Burmese are not (nor is anyone else) a stakeholder in the Dhamma so as far as I am concerned their treatment of those who disrespect "Buddhism" is quite far removed from the teaching itself. As already pointed out, it seems to have much more to do with cultural and national pride which are clearly reflected in their laws of social conduct. The sentence is indeed harsh, but "when in Burma..."

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