Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

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robertk
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by robertk » Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:54 am

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=24585&hilit=abortion#p353991

visuddhimgga VIII
30. Herein, firstly the span has no sign because there is no definition such as:
Just so much must be lived, no more than that. For beings [die in the various
stages of the embryo, namely], at the time of the kalala, of the abbuda, of the pesi, of
the ghana, at one month gone, two months gone, three months gone, four months
gone, five months gone … ten months gone, and on the occasion of coming out
of the womb. And after that they die this side or the other of the century.



XVII
1
52. But when that minimal amount arises in the two kinds of generation
termed egg-born and womb-born, it amounts to no more than a drop of cream of
ghee on a single fibre of new-born [kid’s] wool, and it is known as the “embryo
in the first stage” (S I 206).

chownah
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by chownah » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:13 pm

SarathW wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:27 am
Fusion of the sperm and egg happens before descent into the womb
The way I understand all three happen at once.
It is like lighting a fire from a matchbox. (say when match stick (sperm cell) hit the matchbox (egg or ovarium cell) it light fire (consciousness come to being)
You should probably go out on the net and read up on how it works. The sperm and egg fuse a few days before it descends into the womb.
I don't know where you get your matchbox simile but it is unlikely that there is consciousness manifest until after a few months of development....there is no place for the consciousness to land until after a few months in that the sense organs and nervous system are not fully developed. All this info is on the net of course.
chownah

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cappuccino
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by cappuccino » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:15 pm

Better safe than sorry right?
Matthew 7

SarathW
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by SarathW » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:43 pm

there is no place for the consciousness to land until after a few months
Perhaps you have to learn bit more about the nature of consciousness.
Consciousness can land on anything including space and consciousness itself.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

chownah
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by chownah » Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:02 am

SarathW wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:43 pm
there is no place for the consciousness to land until after a few months
Perhaps you have to learn bit more about the nature of consciousness.
Consciousness can land on anything including space and consciousness itself.
No it can't.
chownah

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Sovatthika
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by Sovatthika » Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:56 am

cappuccino wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:15 pm
Better safe than sorry right?
not really in my opinion. actually, there is a sutta where buddha says something like ignorant beings perceive no wrongdoing where there is and perceive wrongdoing where there is not.
focusing on this question perhaps will make me more confused. would like to see a discussion of those relevant texts in pali

"XVII
1
52. But when that minimal amount arises in the two kinds of generation
termed egg-born and womb-born, it amounts to no more than a drop of cream of
ghee on a single fibre of new-born [kid’s] wool, and it is known as the “embryo
in the first stage” (S I 206)." could someone explain this to me maybe via pm.
namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā sambuddhassa

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Sovatthika
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by Sovatthika » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:15 pm

the vinaya expressly prohibits abortion https://suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-bu-vb-pj3
and it apparently prohibits contraceptives also. might as well close the thread
namo tassa bhagavato arahato sammā sambuddhassa

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mikenz66
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Re: Abhidhamma: Is an abortion killing a living being?

Post by mikenz66 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:51 pm

Sovatthika wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:15 pm
the vinaya expressly prohibits abortion https://suttacentral.net/en/pi-tv-bu-vb-pj3
and it apparently prohibits contraceptives also. might as well close the thread
This prohibits monks administering contraception:
On one occasion a fertile woman said to a monk who was supported by her family, “Venerable, please find me some medicine to help me not get pregnant.” “All right,” he said … “There’s no offense entailing expulsion, but there’s an offense of wrong conduct.”
But it is a stretch to say that contraceptives are prohibited if administered by lay people.

:heart:
Mike

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