"Rain soddens what's covered..."

[angryrika]

Rain soddens what's covered & doesn't sodden what's exposed. So open up what's covered up, so that it won't get soddened by the rain.

Sodden — adj — saturated, especially with water; soaked through

Can somebody explain to me the meaning of this quote? How can rain not saturate that which is covered/protected?

[retrofuturist]

Greetings,

Can somebody explain to me the meaning of this quote? How can rain not saturate that which is covered/protected?

I think it would be in relation to the absence of wind and sun to dry it off after the rain.

After you able to provide a link to the origin of the quote so it can be viewed in context?

Metta,
Retro.

[cooran]

Hello all,

Read the whole sutta to see what the Blessed One was teaching :

Uposattha Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta,
Chris

[culaavuso]

I think it would be in relation to the absence of wind and sun to dry it off after the rain.

That explanation appears to make sense, especially given one of the places where this quote is found in Ud 5.5:

Then the thought occurred to Ven. Mahā Moggallāna: "In reference to which individual did the Blessed One just now say, 'Ānanda, the gathering isn't pure'?" So he directed his mind, encompassing with his awareness the awareness of the entire community of monks. He saw that individual — unprincipled, evil, unclean and suspect in his undertakings, hidden in his actions, not a contemplative though claiming to be one, not leading the holy life though claiming to do so, inwardly rotten, oozing with desire, filthy by nature — sitting in the midst of the community of monks. On seeing him, he got up, went over to that individual, and on reaching him said, "Get up, friend. You have been seen by the Blessed One. You have no affiliation with the community of monks."
...
Rain soddens what's covered
& doesn't sodden what's open.
So open up what's covered up,
so that it won't get soddened by the rain.

This same text and context appears in the Khandaka portion of the Vinaya Piṭaka as well, at Kd 19. Another context where it occurs is in the Gāthāsaṅgaṇika chapter in the Parivāra division of the Vinaya Piṭaka, also connected with a discussion of proper conduct:

Following the straight way
of the training of one under training,

This (right) conduct is the beginning,
and control by restraint of the mouth.
There is no training like this:
it is so called because of that.

It rains hard on a covered thing,
it rains not hard on an open thing,
So open up the covered thing:
thus it will not rain hard on that.

The original reference to Sirimanda suggests that the original source may have been Thag 6.13, which appears to be using the quote as an opening to an exhortation to heedfulness and understanding the danger of misconduct:

Rain soddens what's covered
& doesn't sodden what's exposed.
So open up what's covered up,
so that it won't get soddened by the rain.

Attacked by death
is the world,
surrounded by aging,
beset by the arrow of craving,
always obscured by desire.

Attacked by death
is the world,
& encircled by aging,
constantly beaten, with no shelter,
like a thief
sentenced to punishment.

They encroach like masses of flame,
these three:
death, aging, & illness.
There's no strength to confront them,
no speed to run away.

Make the day not-in-vain,
a little or a lot.
However much
the day passes,
that's how much less
is life.
Your last day approaches.
This isn't your time
to be heedless.

The word translated by Ven. Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu as "soddens" appears to be ativassati, derived from ati + vassati.

Ativassati [ati + vassati, cp. Sk. abhivarṣati] to rain down on, upon or into

II. as prefix, meaning. -- 1. on to, up to, towards, until); as far as: accanta up to the end; aticchati to go further, pass on; atipāta "falling on to"; attack slaying; atimāpeti to put damage on to, i. e. to destroy. -- 2. over, beyond, past, by, trans -- ; with verbs: (a.) trs. atikkamati to pass beyond, surpass; atimaññati to put one's "manas" over, to despise; atirocati to surpass in splendour. (b.) intr. atikkanta passed by; atikkama traversing; aticca transgressing; atīta past, gone beyond. -- Also with verbal derivations: accaya lapse, also sin, transgression ("going over"); atireka remainder, left over; atisaya overflow, abundance; atisāra stepping over, sin. -- 3. exceedingly, in a high or excessive degree either very (much) or too (much); in nominal compn. (a), rarely also in verbal compn. see (b). -- (a) with nouns & adj.: ˚āsanna too near; ˚uttama the very highest; ˚udaka too much water; ˚khippa too soon; ˚dāna excessive alms giving; ˚dāruṇa very cruel; ˚dīgha extremely long; ˚dūra too near; deva a super -- god ˚pago too early; ˚bālha too much; ˚bhāra a too heavy load; ˚manāpa very lovely; ˚manohara very charming; ˚mahant too great; ˚vikāla very inconvenient; ˚vela a very long time; ˚sambādha too tight, etc. etc. <-> (b.) with verb: atibhuñjati to eat excessively.

III. A peculiar use of ati is its' function in reduplication -- compounds, expressing "and, adding further, and so on, even more, etc." like that of the other comparing or contrasting prefixes

Vassati1 [vṛṣ, varṣati, vṛṣate; Idg. *ṷers to wet, cp. Vedic vṛṣa bull, varṣa rain, vṛṣabha (P. usabha), Av. varšna virile, Lat. verres boar; Gr. a)/rrhn virile, e)/rsh dew; with which root is connected *eres to flow: Sk. arṣati, ṛṣabha bull, Lat. ros dew=Sk. rasa essence etc. <-> Dhtm 471 gives "secana" as defn] to rain (intrs.), fig. to shower, pour(down) Vin i.32 (mahāmegho vassi); S iii.141 (deve vassante); v.396 (id.); Sn 30 (devassa vassato, gen. sg. ppr.); PvA 6, 139, 287; Mhvs 21, 33; DhA ii.83 (vassatu, imper.; vassi, aor.); 265 (devo vassanto nom. sg.). -- Cp. kālena kālaŋ devo vṛṣyate Divy 71. -- Caus. II. vassāpeti to cause to rain J v.201 (Sakko devaŋ v. let the sky shed rain). -- pp. vaṭṭa, vaṭṭha, vuṭṭha. Another pp. of the Caus. *vasseti is vassita.

[Bhikkhu Pesala]

It looks like a bad translation to me.

The one that I remember is that it rains hard on what is covered, not on something that is open.

I am sure they didn't have tin roofs in the Buddha's time, but they probably had tiled roofs, or wooden shingles.

[Dhammanando]

It looks like a bad translation to me.

Indeed. The “rains hard” rendering is in I.B. Horner's translation of the Vinaya Piṭaka:

• “It rains hard on a covered thing, it rains not hard on an open thing,
  So open up the covered thing: thus it will not rain hard on that.”

[Kumara]

It looks like a bad translation to me.

Indeed. The “rains hard” rendering is in I.B. Horner's translation of the Vinaya Piṭaka:

• “It rains hard on a covered thing, it rains not hard on an open thing,
  So open up the covered thing: thus it will not rain hard on that.”

I'm not getting something: Why does it rains hard on a covered thing, not on an open thing?

[Dhammanando]

I'm not getting something: Why does it rains hard on a covered thing, not on an open thing?

The rain descends with equal velocity in both cases, but when it reaches the earth it makes much more of a racket if it lands on a roof than if it lands on a stretch of open earth or grassland.

[chownah]

It looks like a bad translation to me.

Indeed. The “rains hard” rendering is in I.B. Horner's translation of the Vinaya Piṭaka:

• “It rains hard on a covered thing, it rains not hard on an open thing,
  So open up the covered thing: thus it will not rain hard on that.”

I'm not getting something: Why does it rains hard on a covered thing, not on an open thing?

I think there is nothing to get with this translation. I think it is wrong. "Rain soddens what's covered" makes good sense if "sodden" is taken to actually be "dampen". "Rain dampens what's covered" because if its covered it can not dry out. Don't forget that in the buddha's time there was no plastic sheeting and probably thatch was the most common roofing material. After a rain when the sun comes out the top layer of thatch will quickly dry out since it is not covered but the layers beneath will stay damp for quite a long time if the rain lasts long enough to penetrate to that level.

For me, though, the entire metaphor is sort of weak and it does not really resonate well with me.
chownah

[Dhammanando]

From the Vinaya Atthakathā:

• channamativassatī ti āpattiṃ āpajjitvā paṭicchādento aññaṃ navaṃ āpattiṃ āpajjati idametaṃ sandhāya vuttaṃ.
  
  “It rains hard on the covered” — this was stated in connection with one who, having committed an offence, concealing it commits another new offence
  
  vivaṭaṃ nātivassatī ti āpattiṃ āpajjitvā vivaranto aññaṃ nāpajjati idametaṃ sandhāya vuttaṃ.
  
  “It rains not hard on the open” — this was stated in connection with one who, having committed an offence, disclosing it does not commit any further offence.

Relating this to Horner’s translation: when a raindrop falls on, say, a roof or a lid, it makes a noise. It then bounces off, lands on the ground and makes a further noise. But if the raindrop falls on uncovered soil, grass, etc. then it is absorbed and so only gets to make one noise.

Relating it to Ajahn Thanissaro’s translation: the raindrops accumulate when they land on a covering but don’t accumulate if they fall on the ground.

Of the two I find Horner’s the likelier. With “It rains hard...” she plausibly treats ativassati as an impersonal verb (as the verb “to rain” usually is in Indo-European languages). But with “Rain soddens...” Thanissaro invents a subject where the Pali has none and then has this subject perform an action (“to sodden”), despite there being no grounds for supposing that “soddening” lies within ativassati’s semantic range.

[angryrika]

Thanks a lot guys! It makes sense when you think of the story of the impure monk being caught in the community, a lot of noise being made when it rains on something hard, and wind/sun being able to dry something uncovered better than something covered. Trying to hide your impurities is difficult, especially when they get pointed out to you. Even then, you might not abandon them.

[daverupa]

"The covered is that which is
drenched by the rain;
What's open will only get soused.

So uncover that which can't
otherwise drain;
In this way it cannot get doused."

---

3/10?

[mikenz66]

Bhante, thank you for the interesting analysis. I notice that Ajahn Thanissaro's translation is essentially the same as John Ireland's. Perhaps both went astray...

Rain soddens what is covered up,
It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .irel.html

Mike

[SarathW]

What is the Pali word for "soddens"

[Kumara]

Of the two I find Horner’s the likelier.

Me too. Thanks for the analysis.