Buddhist response to Terrorism

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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alan
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by alan » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:05 am

By any measure, wahhabism is brutal and intolerant. Comparing the differences as if it were the same as as Mahayana vs. Theravada is not only ridiculous in and of itself, but also shows a complete lack of awareness of the subject.
Anyone want to prove me wrong, and show examples of wahhabi teachings being anything less than hateful towards non believers? Good luck with that project. I'll be waiting.

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Modus.Ponens » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:33 am

alan wrote:By any measure, wahhabism is brutal and intolerant. Comparing the differences as if it were the same as as Mahayana vs. Theravada is not only ridiculous in and of itself, but also shows a complete lack of awareness of the subject.
Anyone want to prove me wrong, and show examples of wahhabi teachings being anything less than hateful towards non believers? Good luck with that project. I'll be waiting.
I don't think it had anything to do with the content of the doctrines involved in the comparisson between the schools of islam and schools of buddhism. The point was only about how one is more "purist" and strictest than the other.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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DhammaOS
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by DhammaOS » Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:20 am

Modus.Ponens wrote:
alan wrote:...
I don't think it had anything to do with the content of the doctrines involved in the comparisson between the schools of islam and schools of buddhism. The point was only about how one is more "purist" and strictest than the other.
This is how I saw it as well. Just trying to form an analogy we would be somewhat more familiar with.
"There are, O monks, these four lights. What four? The light of the moon, the light of the sun, the light of fire, and the light of wisdom. Of these four lights, the light of wisdom is supreme."-AN 4:143

Buddham saranam gacchami, Dhammam saranam gacchami, Sangham saranam gacchami

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:58 pm

You hit the nail. That's exactly what I meant.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

SamBodhi
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by SamBodhi » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:26 am

I remember a quote by Ajahn Bram where he said that he was very proud of response he heard from the Buddhist community after some large carvings were destroyed in Afghanistan.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhas_of_Bamiyan

I remember him saying that the response he heard was essentially, "Everything is bound to destruction." In other words, it was a great tragedy, but they may as well have dynamited the bare rocks next to it since it was all subject to change equally.

I may not be an act of terrorism in one sense that it didn't target the public to induce fear. Atill, seeing as how it was carried out by the Taliban, Ajahn Brahm's statements could be considered a Buddhist response to terrorism.
My apologies if my paraphrasing may turn out to mis lead anybody. I heard it in a Dhamma talk by Ajahn Brahm over two years ago.

with Metta,
SamBodhi
"An inward-staying
unentangled knowing,
All outward-going knowing
cast aside."
--Upasika Kee Nanayon

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:26 pm

What do you propose as a solution to the issue of Islamic terrorism? Since the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks in the world are done by Jihadists and we're talking mostly about Islam here, we should continue the topic.

Because well, I have no idea what to do. Really.

My only advice is to preaching other religions to Muslims (ANYTHING, whether Hinduism, Christianity or whatever). But at the same time I strongly advice anyone agaisnt proselytizing in Muslim countries. If someone from here decided to do that, I would literally kowtow before him. IT requires unimaginable courage.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Modus.Ponens » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:36 pm

Ahura Mazda wrote:What do you propose as a solution to the issue of Islamic terrorism? Since the overwhelming majority of terrorist attacks in the world are done by Jihadists and we're talking mostly about Islam here, we should continue the topic.

Because well, I have no idea what to do. Really.

My only advice is to preaching other religions to Muslims (ANYTHING, whether Hinduism, Christianity or whatever). But at the same time I strongly advice anyone agaisnt proselytizing in Muslim countries. If someone from here decided to do that, I would literally kowtow before him. IT requires unimaginable courage.
This may seem a naive idea of mine, but I actualy think it's not.

Instead of sending drones to drop bombs and kill muslims, we should send drones to drop human rights panphlets and curb muslim jihadism. Or panphlets that point out the inconsistencies of islam with science. Or the inconsistencies within the quran. Etc.

The way to defeat a dangerous ideology is by proving it false. Not to kill people with that ideology, as it will make the situation worse, as it has in these last 20+ years.

But I do understand your exasperation. Too many intelligent, well-educated people, deny even to themselves that there is a problem with the religion itself. Let alone the others...
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:59 pm

Many file and rank Muslims have a strange relationship with Islam. On one hand they see the advancements that the West has made over the last ~500 years and that compared to these, their own civilization is a pathetic little cockroach. On the other, they are too addicted to Islam to leave it because leaving it means rejecting a part of their own self. They want to be modern and at the same time they want to keep believing in an ideology that is against human rights and modernism in general.

Such a weird situation is humiliating. They have even written books about scientific "miracles" in the Quran so that they can feel better and restore even a part of their dignity.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

SarathW
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by SarathW » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:32 pm

Hi Ahura
It appears to me that you have lot of experience with bad Muslims but not with good Muslims.
I know many bad and good Buddhists, Hindus, Christians and Jewish and Muslim people.
I think we should pay attention to the people around us and not the people are living in one thousand kilo meters away from us.
:reading:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:42 pm

I am criticizing an ideology, not people who claim to be it's followerss but actually know nothing about it (I was one of such people after all - for most of my life).

Sadly, in case of Muslim terrorists, we are not fighting with people who merely misintepret their religion - but with people whose actions are highly entrenched in a sophisticated theological-legal foundation called Sharia law. Killing apostates and massacring polytheists who refuse to convert is against our morality but it's not against Sharia. They hear and they obey.

Peace.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

SarathW
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:00 am

Unfortunately all Abrahamic religions has that undertone.
Moses killed all non believers after he came down from the mountain with his ten commandments. (not to mention Crusaders)
The world worst terrorist organisation are Tamil Hindus.
Some Buddhist monks set fire to themselves to fight some causes.
People are always look for some loop holes to justify their wrong actions.
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:15 am

Let me just make an important point.

Can we please assume the best out of people in this forum? The point is that the doctrine of islam is dangerous. It's not racism. It's not saying that arabs are dangerous because they're arabs. Many jews, for example, are of arab descent and I have nothing against jews. It's the dangerous doctrine of islam that is at stake. It's the doctrine that can influence human beings just like us into doing things they would not otherwise do.

There shouldn't be any special status for religious doctrines apart from what they teach and uphold. If they teach good things, then they should be respected. If they teach bad things, they should not be respected. If they teach some good and some bad, then they should be faced with due caution. A religion should only be regarded as sacred if it has proved its worth through goodness.

I don't see anybody outraged when I say that scientology is ridiculous, a dangerous brainwashing cult, a scham to steal money from the gullible and that its high ranks are criminals who went to jail fro crimes in the name of scientology. Why the outrage about criticism of the doctrine of islam in our society?

Fascists think the problem is muslims. Rational people think the problem is islam. It's not the same thing. If you think it is you're doing a disservice to everyone, including muslims.
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:18 am

No, other Abrahamics don't suffer from that sickness.

The Old Testament contains commands for Jews to exterminate the seven tribes of Canaan - but that commadn has ben fulfilled about 3500 years ago. The only people whom Jews can fight are Amalekites - which is impossible because of sheer impossibility of determining who is a descendant of Amalek.

Christianity abolished Old Covenant laws and hence it does not prescribe and fixed legal system. But it's doubtful that Jesus, being a nonviolent person, would be pleased to see his followers slaughter other people.

Baha'i Faith is not violent either.

Islam is the only religion which scriptures order war not anly against specific people in specific place and time - but against all non-Muslims (called kuffar in Arabic, which means blasphemer of God) for all times, in all places - until the global political domination of Islam and Sharia law is achieved.

Peace.

EDIT: Modus Ponens, once again you said precisely what I think. Respect, brother.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Modus.Ponens » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:39 am

Thank you Ahura. I apreciate your role here as well. Apostates of islam can have a dificult life and you're even brave enough to tell what you've learned. :anjali:
"He turns his mind away from those phenomena and, having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.' " - Jhana Sutta

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Ahura Mazda
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Re: Buddhist response to Terrorism

Post by Ahura Mazda » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:56 am

Apostates in Europe don't have difficult lives, provided that they have tolerant families. There are thousands people like me expressing their views all over the web.

Those in Muslim majority countries are a different story, though, given that even "secular" Muslim countries have enacted discriminatory laws against apostates or non-Muslims in general (see for example anti-Baha'i laws enacted in 20th century in several countries, including "secular" Nasser's Egypt.). There is not a single Muslim country that approaches a typical Western country when it comes to religious freedom. Many of them have actually regressed over the last 50 years.
“Though you might conquer in battle
A thousand times a thousand men,
You're the greatest battle-winner
If you conquer just one - yourself.”

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