What is your opinion of Mahayana?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
hermitwin
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 pm

What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by hermitwin »

What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Esp the popular schools eg pure land.
A view that I often encounter is that it is incorrect to consider Theravada more authentic than Mahayana.
Mahayana is seen as more progressive because it adds new sutras. Also, many think that Mahayana is less selfish because it wants to liberate all sentient beings.
Just want to see what you think esp the monks on this forum.
culaavuso
Posts: 1363
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 8:27 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by culaavuso »

Some related discussion can be found in previous threads such as this one.

For questions specifically about Mahāyāna it might be more informative to ask on Dharma Wheel.
soapy3
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:54 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by soapy3 »

hermitwin wrote:What is your opinion of Mahayana?
Very huge, very diverse, and I know next to nothing about it so I can't say I have an opinion about Mahayana overall.
Esp the popular schools eg pure land.
A Chinese restaurant I used to go had free Pure Land pamphlets out for people to take. I only skimmed a few, but it looked like a lot of myth and superstition to me. I got into Buddhism via vipassana meditation and a view of Theravada as a rational philosophy of life as presented by western meditation teachers. I have since seen that is far from true for Theravada. It has plenty of its own myths and superstitions. Still that has always been what I have NOT wanted, so I wrote off Pure Land as something to look into long ago.
A view that I often encounter is that it is incorrect to consider Theravada more authentic than Mahayana.
I have seen that too. I heard that they think that their suttas were earlier, but were hidden or lost until later discovered. When I told them that academics consider Theravada writings to be older they have gotten nasty with me and have accused researchers of not knowing their job. No thank you. That is the kind of psychological shell game that drove me away from domestic religions.
User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by Lazy_eye »

Hard to make a blanket generalization. As the previous poster said, it's huge and diverse. Speaking personally, there are aspects of Mahayana I see as beneficial/useful and other aspects that I find less so. Things I've found beneficial include: the prajnaparamita sutras, the bodhisattva aspiration, sunyata/emptiness, and the universalist spirit conveyed in some Mahayana sutras (for example, the famous passage in the Lotus Sutra about the naga princess gaining enlightenment). Since I have a strong interest in music, poetry and art, I appreciate the ways in which various Mahayana traditions have incorporated these. I also admire the goals of the "humanistic Buddhism" movement, which came out of East Asian Mahayana.

Things I've found unhelpful/less helpful: dietary rules prohibiting garlic and various pungent spices, the over-codification of "sexual misconduct" (effectively, in some interpretations, limiting sex to procreation), strident polemical passages in some Mahayana sutras, overly strong role of the teacher/guru/lineage, tendency to prioritize tradition, and a more deterministic view of karma than is found in early Buddhism.
A Chinese restaurant I used to go had free Pure Land pamphlets out for people to take. I only skimmed a few, but it looked like a lot of myth and superstition to me. I got into Buddhism via vipassana meditation and a view of Theravada as a rational philosophy of life as presented by western meditation teachers. I have since seen that is far from true for Theravada. It has plenty of its own myths and superstitions. Still that has always been what I have NOT wanted, so I wrote off Pure Land as something to look into long ago.
My introduction to PL was similar -- a Chinese grocery in our area stocks Pure Land literature in the hallway. Although I'm a skeptical sort (and attracted to dhamma-as-rational-philosophy), PL doesn't really bother me -- in fact I find some aspects of it appealing. Part of the reason, I think, is that it doesn't pretend to be rational; it's upfront about being a practice of faith. And Kuan Yin inspires me regardless of what I may or may not believe about her ontological status.
identification
Posts: 132
Joined: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:45 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by identification »

Lazy_eye wrote:Hard to make a blanket generalization. As the previous poster said, it's huge and diverse. Speaking personally, there are aspects of Mahayana I see as beneficial/useful and other aspects that I find less so. Things I've found beneficial include: the prajnaparamita sutras, the bodhisattva aspiration, sunyata/emptiness, and the universalist spirit conveyed in some Mahayana sutras (for example, the famous passage in the Lotus Sutra about the naga princess gaining enlightenment). Since I have a strong interest in music, poetry and art, I appreciate the ways in which various Mahayana traditions have incorporated these. I also admire the goals of the "humanistic Buddhism" movement, which came out of East Asian Mahayana.

Things I've found unhelpful/less helpful: dietary rules prohibiting garlic and various pungent spices, the over-codification of "sexual misconduct" (effectively, in some interpretations, limiting sex to procreation), strident polemical passages in some Mahayana sutras, overly strong role of the teacher/guru/lineage, tendency to prioritize tradition, and a more deterministic view of karma than is found in early Buddhism.
A Chinese restaurant I used to go had free Pure Land pamphlets out for people to take. I only skimmed a few, but it looked like a lot of myth and superstition to me. I got into Buddhism via vipassana meditation and a view of Theravada as a rational philosophy of life as presented by western meditation teachers. I have since seen that is far from true for Theravada. It has plenty of its own myths and superstitions. Still that has always been what I have NOT wanted, so I wrote off Pure Land as something to look into long ago.
My introduction to PL was similar -- a Chinese grocery in our area stocks Pure Land literature in the hallway. Although I'm a skeptical sort (and attracted to dhamma-as-rational-philosophy), PL doesn't really bother me -- in fact I find some aspects of it appealing. Part of the reason, I think, is that it doesn't pretend to be rational; it's upfront about being a practice of faith. And Kuan Yin inspires me regardless of what I may or may not believe about her ontological status.
Why do you think dietary rules and limiting sex to procreation is unhelpful/less helpful
soapy3
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:54 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by soapy3 »

Lazy_eye wrote: My introduction to PL was similar -- a Chinese grocery in our area stocks Pure Land literature in the hallway. Although I'm a skeptical sort (and attracted to dhamma-as-rational-philosophy), PL doesn't really bother me -- in fact I find some aspects of it appealing. Part of the reason, I think, is that it doesn't pretend to be rational; it's upfront about being a practice of faith.
The worst groups are the ones that claim not be a religion, but scientific..., just before they launch into a long thing about nothing but religious views.
User avatar
Lazy_eye
Posts: 996
Joined: Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:23 pm
Location: Laurel, MD
Contact:

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by Lazy_eye »

identification wrote: Why do you think dietary rules and limiting sex to procreation is unhelpful/less helpful
On the diet question --

Garlic has health benefits, as do some of the other restricted foods. It's fallacious to believe that mindful eating is simply a matter of avoiding spicy foods; one can become attached to bland foods as well. Some of the dietary restrictions reflect concepts involving "winds" or "energy" that do not originate with Buddhism. Others, such as the insistence on vegetarianism and even veganism in some schools, actually run counter to what the Buddha taught. And some just seem arbitrary -- a set of rules created by institutionalized religion, which likes to do that sort of thing.

On the sex question --

Research shows, as does a great deal of anecdotal and personal experience, that sexual and emotional intimacy is important in relationships. Setting this as the standard effectively puts Buddhism off limits for everyone except single people and those who may be in a partnership with someone who welcomes celibacy. It may have been more realistic in a patriarchal society which blithely assumed that sexual desire was just an issue of concern to males, but that certainly can't be assumed today. It also makes Buddhism vulnerable to accusations of homophobia, which are (sadly) borne out in some cases.

The five precepts are not advanced training rules -- they are for ordinary people undertaking a spiritual practice.
Last edited by Lazy_eye on Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
soapy3
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:54 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by soapy3 »

identification wrote: Why do you think dietary rules and limiting sex to procreation is unhelpful/less helpful
I'm not the person you asked, but what would be the point? Limiting sex to procreation would effectively mean giving it up aside from 1 or 2 times in your life. If you did that, you might as well become a monk or a nun, to get the benefit of being one of those things as long as you are giving up so much.
User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6594
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: USA

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by Mkoll »

hermitwin wrote:What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Esp the popular schools eg pure land.
A view that I often encounter is that it is incorrect to consider Theravada more authentic than Mahayana.
Mahayana is seen as more progressive because it adds new sutras. Also, many think that Mahayana is less selfish because it wants to liberate all sentient beings.
Just want to see what you think esp the monks on this forum.
Personally, it's irrelevant to my practice right now and for the foreseeable future. It's interesting to learn about though. But for others, hey, whatever floats their boat.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Disciple
Posts: 513
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:13 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by Disciple »

I'm agnostic about PL but if it's valid then it would make a good insurance policy.
hermitwin
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by hermitwin »

IIt is true that many traditional Mahayana Buddhists consider garlic unhelpful to monastic life.
I don’t rule out the possibility that garlic and other herbs could have certain effects on the body.
It is similar to many people who claims that a vegetarian diet makes them calmer.
However, what bothers me is when people claim that its what Buddha taught.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by tiltbillings »

hermitwin wrote:IIt is true that many traditional Mahayana Buddhists consider garlic unhelpful to monastic life.
Garlic can give one breath that could stun an elephant, which is likely the reason it is not recommended for monastics. It is hardly something worth focusing upon.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
hermitwin
Posts: 231
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:35 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by hermitwin »

Tell that to the mahayana monks.
It is very important to them.
In fact if you include garlic in the diet, then the meal is considered non-vegetarian.
User avatar
tiltbillings
Posts: 23046
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 9:25 am

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by tiltbillings »

hermitwin wrote:Tell that to the mahayana monks.
It is very important to them.
In fact if you include garlic in the diet, then the meal is considered non-vegetarian.
It may or may not be important to some Mahayana monks, but why do you care? It is a peripheral issue in terms of the Dhamma and in terms of understanding Mahayana. One can find equally nit-picky things in the Theravada Vinaya.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
soapy3
Posts: 250
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 11:54 pm

Re: What is your opinion of Mahayana?

Post by soapy3 »

Which Jeff Goldblum movie is the picture in your avatar from?
Post Reply