Agree.It's unreasonable to practice anything without knowing the final fruit.
But if you become a Sotapanna then you can have a taste of Nibbana.
It is gradual training.
You take the second step once you have completed the first step.
Agree.It's unreasonable to practice anything without knowing the final fruit.
I'm not so sure about that. To use some analogies...Akhandha wrote:It's unreasonable to practice anything without knowing the final fruit.
It's also the end of love, happiness and desire to exist. And nothing clear about consciousness.Zom wrote:Nibbana is the ending of greed, hatred, delusion. Enough for practice ,)
SN 35.91 wrote:“Bhikkhus, being stirred is a disease, being stirred is a tumour, being stirred is a dart. Therefore, bhikkhus, the Tathagata dwells unstirred, with the dart removed. Therefore, bhikkhus, if a bhikkhu should wish, ‘May I dwell unstirred, with the dart removed!’ he should not conceive the eye … forms … eye-consciousness … eye-contact … and as to whatever feeling arises with eye-contact as condition … he should not conceive that, should not conceive in that, should not conceive from that, should not conceive, ‘That is mine.’ For whatever one conceives, bhikkhus, whatever one conceives in, whatever one conceives from, whatever one conceives as ‘mine’—that is otherwise. The world, becoming otherwise, attached to existence, seeks delight only in existence.
“He should not conceive the ear … He should not conceive the mind … mental phenomena … mind-consciousness … mind-contact … and as to whatever feeling arises with mind-contact as condition … he should not conceive that, should not conceive in that, should not conceive from that, should not conceive, ‘That is mine.’ For whatever one conceives, bhikkhus, whatever one conceives in, whatever one conceives from, whatever one conceives as ‘mine’—that is otherwise. The world, becoming otherwise, attached to existence, seeks delight only in existence.
“Whatever, bhikkhus, is the extent of the aggregates, the elements, and the sense bases, he does not conceive that, does not conceive in that, does not conceive from that, does not conceive, ‘That is mine.’
“Since he does not conceive anything thus, he does not cling to anything in the world. Not clinging, he is not agitated. Being unagitated, he personally attains Nibbāna. He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
Mkoll wrote: Not clinging, he is not agitated. Being unagitated, he personally attains Nibbāna. He understands: ‘Destroyed is birth, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more for this state of being.’”
The view that Nibbana = non-existence is just that: a view. Part of the cultivation of wisdom is developing the understanding of views.Akhandha wrote:What's good in non-existence?... never_doing_nothing.... oh, so boring))
Maybe, this total peace is good after a long suffering. For some time. But not for ever.
AN 10.96 wrote:[Venerable Ananda:]"'The cosmos is eternal. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless,' is a viewpoint. 'The cosmos is not eternal... The cosmos is finite... The cosmos is infinite... The soul & the body are the same... The soul is one thing and the body another... After death a Tathagata exists... After death a Tathagata does not exist... After death a Tathagata both does & does not exist... After death a Tathagata neither does nor does not exist. Only this is true; anything otherwise is worthless,' is a viewpoint. The extent to which there are viewpoints, view-stances, the taking up of views, obsessions of views, the cause of views, & the uprooting of views: that's what I know. That's what I see. Knowing that, I say 'I know.' Seeing that, I say 'I see.' Why should I say 'I don't know, I don't see'? I do know. I do see."
It sounds like you like you have cultivated calm quite a bit. I'd suggest you cultivate insight more. For example, the perception of impermanence is a great practice and is one the Buddha recommended to householders.As for conscience without "myself" - I'm acquainted with these states. I like them very much. It's real bliss. In these states there is no emotions, no thinking, only oceanic awareness. What I'm not ready to give up - is conscience. Awareness.
forms of energy change all the time, but the energy itself never disappears.the perception of impermanence is a great practice
As long as there is greed, there is greed for love,greed for happiness, and desire to exist -)It's also the end of love, happiness and desire to exist.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.htmlWhat's good in non-existence?... never_doing_nothing.... oh, so boring))
Maybe, this total peace is good after a long suffering. For some time. But not for ever.
I have heard that on one occasion Ven. Sariputta was staying near Rajagaha in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrels' Feeding Sanctuary. There he said to the monks, "This Unbinding is pleasant, friends. This Unbinding is pleasant."
When this was said, Ven. Udayin said to Ven. Sariputta, "But what is the pleasure here, my friend, where there is nothing felt?"
Exactly wrote:[...]
Nibbānasukha Sutta (AN 9.34) wrote:Just that is the pleasure here, my friend: where there is nothing felt.
Akhandha wrote:Doubtful pleasure for me)
Bahuvedanīya Sutta (MN 59) wrote:It is possible, Ananda, that wanderers of other sects might speak thus: 'The recluse Gotama speaks of the cessation of perception and feeling and he describes that as pleasure. What is this, and how is this?' Wanderers of other sects who speak thus should be told: 'Friends, the Blessed One describes pleasure not only with reference to pleasant feeling; rather, friends, the Tathagata describes as pleasure any kind of pleasure wherever and in whatever way it is found.'
Only boring if there is a being to crave existence and doing.Akhandha wrote:What's good in non-existence?... never_doing_nothing.... oh, so boring))
Maybe, this total peace is good after a long suffering. For some time. But not for ever.
+ First Noble Truth + Anicca + Dukkha + Anatta.AN 1.328-332 wrote:Bhikkhus, just as even a trifling amount of feces/urine/saliva/pus/blood is foul-smelling, so too I do not praise even a trifling amount of existence, even for a mere finger snap.
Buddha rejected both existence and non-existence and taught dependent origination.What's good in non-existence?...
So you believe you have found something permanent in your experience?Akhandha wrote:forms of energy change all the time, but the energy itself never disappears.the perception of impermanence is a great practice
there is deep calm underneath everything that moves and changes. this calm never changes. an ever clear awareness.
Have you visited Dharma Wheel and tried sharing your views there? You may be surprised, AFAIK.Akhandha wrote:I understand well what Dzogchen and Mahayana are talking about. And I can't understand the Theravada buddism to the end because of these ideas that awareness (consciousness) is to be given up. I simply don't understand WHAT remains.
As I understand consciousness is not to be given up in Nibbana in any of the forms of Buddhism you mention. Attachment is. Clinging to concepts such as "consciousness", awareness," "energy," " I am," or even "giving up" is. So if yoo feeling bliss, are aware or unaware in meditation there is still far to go. Or so I have been told by Mahayanists and Theravadins.Akhandha wrote:forms of energy change all the time, but the energy itself never disappears.the perception of impermanence is a great practice
there is deep calm underneath everything that moves and changes. this calm never changes. an ever clear awareness.
I understand well what Dzogchen and Mahayana are talking about. And I can't understand the Theravada buddism to the end because of these ideas that awareness (consciousness) is to be given up. I simply don't understand WHAT remains.