Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

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mettafuture
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Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by mettafuture » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:45 pm

I don't really need to buy another nikaya, but I want to out of support for Wisdom Publications.

I already own the Majjhima Nikaya, which I love. It's well balanced, easy to read, and covers major Buddhist topics with enough detail to illuminate them in a way that doesn't leave you exhausted.

I'm trying to decide now whether to buy the Samyutta Nikaya or the Anguttara Nikaya. I've read through borrowed copies of both of these books last year and, to be frank, I didn't really like either of them. I found the Samyutta Nikaya fragmented and daunting, and I felt the Anguttara Nikaya, while more readable, was really contrived its numbering.

I've grown up a bit since then. I'm more patient, and I think I'd be able to let the teachings of the Samyutta or Anguttara wash over me without being exceedingly adverse to how they're presented. But which one should I get? I'm not really interested in the householder life anymore (makes me learn toward Samyutta), but I still have an affinity—or perhaps an attachment—for order and neatness (makes me lean toward Anguttara).

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retrofuturist
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:00 pm

Greetings,

Samyutta... it's the best.

(I do like though how the Digha doesn't event come into consideration... in terms of Dhamma content, there's nothing in there, other than perhaps aspects of the Mahanidana Sutta, that isn't covered elsewhere).

If you're prepared to relinquish the motivation for supporting Wisdom Publications, the Sutta Nipata is worth a read.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

SarathW
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by SarathW » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:01 pm

I just browse though all five Nikayas recently.
I think They all are good.
I like Anguttara Nikaya as well. May be I like numbers naturally :)
I do not own any books. I read the following.
I am not sure whether they are complete.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/index.html
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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mettafuture
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by mettafuture » Wed Oct 01, 2014 11:21 pm

retrofuturist wrote:(I do like though how the Digha doesn't event come into consideration... in terms of Dhamma content, there's nothing in there, other than perhaps aspects of the Mahanidana Sutta, that isn't covered elsewhere).
Digha who? :lol: Yeah, I don't plan on ever buying that one, but I would like to own the Samyutta, the Anguttara, and perhaps the Sutta Nipata eventually, but I only have enough money to buy one now. Thank you, Retro.

Quick question: What is it about the Samyutta that makes it the best?
SarathW wrote:I like Anguttara Nikaya as well. May be I like numbers naturally :)
Now that I think about it, I really like numbers, too. :D That's probably what initially drew me into the Theravada. It's so systematic. Thank you, SarathW.

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by Mkoll » Thu Oct 02, 2014 3:43 am

retrofuturist wrote:(I do like though how the Digha doesn't event come into consideration... in terms of Dhamma content, there's nothing in there, other than perhaps aspects of the Mahanidana Sutta, that isn't covered elsewhere).
:rofl:
Poor Digha.

~~~

You can't go wrong with either, mettafuture. :thumbsup:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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retrofuturist
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:14 am

Greetings,
mettafuture wrote:Quick question: What is it about the Samyutta that makes it the best?
I find it "deeper" than the Majjhima, which in turn I find "deeper" than the Anguttara (although that's obviously a gross over-simplification to be taken with an ocean's worth of salt).

I find that having them "grouped" by connected theme is useful for exploring a topic from different angles. It feels more cohesive in that regard than the Anguttara. To give a musical analogy, it's like listening to a series of albums, instead of listening to a massive jukebox of MP3s played on random shuffle (as let's be honest, grouping by number is a pretty arbitrary criteria in terms of Dhamma content).

Metta,
Retro. :)
"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"It is natural that one who knows and sees things as they really are is disenchanted and dispassionate." (AN 10.2)

“Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it.” (Flannery O'Connor)

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:48 am

mettafuture wrote:for order and neatness (makes me lean toward Anguttara).
The AN is probably the most interesting and challenging of the lot.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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mettafuture
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by mettafuture » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:15 pm

Thank you very much again, Retro. Your take seems to be somewhat inline with how Bhikkhu Bodhi—or a colleague of his—described the nikayas. The DN is mainly for proselytizing, the MN for establishing the core teachings and community building, the SN for a deeper almost abhidhammic analysis of the teachings, and AN for a less theoretical and more practical application of the teachings. I've felt this while reading them. I've done a lot of quiet nodding and smiling while reading the MN, but the SN and AN have given me more :shock: moments. But the SN is so ugly though... And that's literally my only problem with it... If I can get over how truncated and unbalanced it is, I'll probably get it.

tiltbillings, that wouldn't surprise me. I've found some some beautiful nuggets of wisdom in the AN. I'll keep reading through the SN and AN and come to a firm decision eventually. Thank you for your reply.

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by Hickersonia » Thu Oct 02, 2014 1:17 pm

Mkoll wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:(I do like though how the Digha doesn't event come into consideration... in terms of Dhamma content, there's nothing in there, other than perhaps aspects of the Mahanidana Sutta, that isn't covered elsewhere).
:rofl:
Poor Digha.
I rather enjoyed the Digha, actually. :anjali:
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by DNS » Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:14 pm

Hickersonia wrote: I rather enjoyed the Digha, actually. :anjali:
:thumbsup: The Digha is not so bad. After all, the great Paranibbana Sutta is in the Digha Nikaya (DN 16). And the Brahmajala Sutta (DN 1) is in the Digha Nikaya.

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mettafuture
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by mettafuture » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:58 pm

While randomly scrolling through a preview of the Samyutta Nikaya, this sutta from the Connected Discourses with Kassapa—SN 16:5, I think—jumped out at me.
At Savatthı. “Bhikkhus, this Kassapa is content with any kind of robe, and he speaks in praise of contentment with any kind of robe, and he does not engage in a wrong search, in what is improper, for the sake of a robe. If he does not get a robe he is not agitated, and if he gets one he uses it without being tied to it, uninfatuated with it, not blindly absorbed in it, seeing the danger in it, understanding the escape.
That's exactly what I needed to hear. These books, like many things in my life, have become my robes. I'm too critical and attached to "perfection", and I need to work harder (or less) to be content with how things are.

Anyway. I just placed my order for the Samyutta Nikaya, and I'll likely try to order the Anguttara Nikaya next month.

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by tiltbillings » Thu Oct 02, 2014 7:09 pm

mettafuture wrote:While randomly scrolling through a preview of the Samyutta Nikaya, this sutta from the Connected Discourses with Kassapa—SN 16:5, I think—jumped out at me.
At Savatthı. “Bhikkhus, this Kassapa is content with any kind of robe, and he speaks in praise of contentment with any kind of robe, and he does not engage in a wrong search, in what is improper, for the sake of a robe. If he does not get a robe he is not agitated, and if he gets one he uses it without being tied to it, uninfatuated with it, not blindly absorbed in it, seeing the danger in it, understanding the escape.
That's exactly what I needed to hear. These books, like many things in my life, have become my robes. I'm too critical and attached to "perfection", and I need to work harder (or less) to be content with how things are.

Anyway. I just placed my order for the Samyutta Nikaya, and I'll likely try to order the Anguttara Nikaya next month.
And do not forget the Sutta Nipata, the Udana and Itivuttaka.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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mettafuture
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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by mettafuture » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:03 am

tiltbillings wrote:And do not forget the Sutta Nipata, the Udana and Itivuttaka.
In the 8 years I've been a practicing Buddhist, I don't think I've ever seen a verse from the Sutta Nipata, Udana, or Itivuttaka. Do they cover anything that's not already covered in the 5,448 collective pages of the MN, SN, and AN?

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by SarathW » Fri Oct 03, 2014 2:35 am

I am reading Itivutakka right now. Lot of food for thought.
:)
=================

Fro IT44:

This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: "Monks, there are these two forms of the Unbinding property. Which two? The Unbinding property with fuel remaining, & the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining.

And what is the Unbinding property with fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. His five sense faculties still remain and, owing to their being intact, he is cognizant of the agreeable & the disagreeable, and is sensitive to pleasure & pain. His ending of passion, aversion, & delusion is termed the Unbinding property with fuel remaining.[1]

And what is the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining? There is the case where a monk is an arahant whose fermentations have ended, who has reached fulfillment, finished the task, laid down the burden, attained the true goal, ended the fetter of becoming, and is released through right gnosis. For him, all that is sensed, being unrelished, will grow cold right here. This is termed the Unbinding property with no fuel remaining."[

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ml#iti-044
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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Re: Trying to Convince Myself to Buy Another Nikaya

Post by bodom » Fri Oct 03, 2014 3:15 am

mettafuture wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:And do not forget the Sutta Nipata, the Udana and Itivuttaka.
In the 8 years I've been a practicing Buddhist, I don't think I've ever seen a verse from the Sutta Nipata, Udana, or Itivuttaka. Do they cover anything that's not already covered in the 5,448 collective pages of the MN, SN, and AN?
The Karaniya Metta Sutta — The Buddha's Words on Loving-Kindness and Bahiya Sutta immediately come to mind.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is so simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice.

Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing.

Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this-just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle.

- Ajahn Chah

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