Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..."

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Sokehi
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Sokehi »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:
The more they protest, the more untenable and baseless their position becomes.

Ridiculous.
Yeah... Especially ridiculous on a conference dedicated towards empowering women in buddhism - or at least offering open discussions about it.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

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Jason
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Jason »

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Thank you sokehi.

The more I read of this, the more difficult i find it to not have unskilful thoughts about those blocking ordination for women.

The more they protest, the more untenable and baseless their position becomes.

Ridiculous.
I have to agree. I side with the Anandas of today in this debate (i.e., pro-bhikkhuni ordination); and I hope that the Buddhist community comes to collectively embrace the revival of the bhikkhuni sangha sooner rather than later. All the arguments against it are legalistic and petty, in my opinion. I can't imagine the Buddha wanted his monastic community to be dominated solely by men, nor can I imagine that he'd be so uptight about ordination procedures (you know, the whole 'not clinging to rite and rituals' thing) if it meant reviving the other half of the sangha at a time when women are breaking free from centuries of discrimination and now have increasingly more freedom to engage in both worldly and spiritual pursuits. I do wish that the 2009 ordinatino at Bodhiyana was handled better and less divisively (at least waiting until after the planned WAM meeting in December to talk about, among other things, the issue of bhikkhuni ordination); but ultimately I'm glad that it happened. I think it's time, and Ajahn Brahm sped up the process by putting it into the forefront, forcing Thai/Theravada Buddhism to deal with it, as well as the treatment of women in Buddhism in general.
"Sabbe dhamma nalam abhinivesaya" (AN 7.58).

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forestmat
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by forestmat »

Sanitsuda Ekachai of the Bangkok Post writes about Ajahn Brahm's speech being cancelled in today's edition:

http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opin ... -prejudice

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Sokehi
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Sokehi »

"Secret Tribes: Bhikkunis"

http://youtu.be/Tf_o66zwN6g
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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Sea Turtle
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Sea Turtle »

The Buddha's Forgotten Nuns (33:54 min)

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documen ... otten-Nuns

Includes interview snippets with Ajahn Jayasaro, Ajahn Sujato, Ajahn Brahm, and Ajahn Succitto, among others. I found it particularly interesting to learn of Ajahn Jayasaro's position on the issue, as I had not known it previously.

:anjali:

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waterchan
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by waterchan »

Sea Turtle wrote:The Buddha's Forgotten Nuns (33:54 min)

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documen ... otten-Nuns

Includes interview snippets with Ajahn Jayasaro, Ajahn Sujato, Ajahn Brahm, and Ajahn Succitto, among others. I found it particularly interesting to learn of Ajahn Jayasaro's position on the issue, as I had not known it previously.

:anjali:
Thanks for posting this! :twothumbsup:

Too bad some Thai Forest monasteries in the UK still continue to deny full bhikkhuni ordination, flying in the face of what the Buddha did 2600 years ago.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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Sokehi
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Sokehi »

waterchan wrote:
Sea Turtle wrote:The Buddha's Forgotten Nuns (33:54 min)

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documen ... otten-Nuns

Includes interview snippets with Ajahn Jayasaro, Ajahn Sujato, Ajahn Brahm, and Ajahn Succitto, among others. I found it particularly interesting to learn of Ajahn Jayasaro's position on the issue, as I had not known it previously.

:anjali:
Thanks for posting this! :twothumbsup:

Too bad some Thai Forest monasteries in the UK still continue to deny full bhikkhuni ordination, flying in the face of what the Buddha did 2600 years ago.
Yes... but still the Siladaras have all requisites available there, teachings, food, medical care and residences needed to live a renunciate life :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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waterchan
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by waterchan »

Sokehi wrote: Yes... but still the Siladaras have all requisites available there, teachings, food, medical care and residences needed to live a renunciate life :anjali:
Material requisites aren't the issue. In the Buddha's time, the sangha's facilities were certainly much worse than they are now, yet plenty of them achieved Nibbana. The issue is that Siladharas are effectively second-class citizens subordinate to monks under the Five Points.
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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Sokehi
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Sokehi »

waterchan wrote:
Sokehi wrote: Yes... but still the Siladaras have all requisites available there, teachings, food, medical care and residences needed to live a renunciate life :anjali:
Material requisites aren't the issue. In the Buddha's time, the sangha's facilities were certainly much worse than they are now, yet plenty of them achieved Nibbana. The issue is that Siladharas are effectively second-class citizens subordinate to monks under the Five Points.
I'm very much aware of this :) but just wanted to point out that for practice everything is set up there. It might not be optimal - I agree. But it's not always just black and white, here the good ones, there the evil ones :anjali:
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko

https://www.youtube.com/user/Repeataarrr

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TheNoBSBuddhist
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by TheNoBSBuddhist »

Sadly, I think, or am inclined to believe, that all the adverse publicity this situation has attracted, will actually make them merely dig in their heels more, and insist they are right.

I cannot see, if they have hitherto refused to listen to reason, public opinion and factual argument, that something like this will alter that one jot.

They will just remain silent on the matter and wait - or hope - for the furore to die down.
Then carry on precisely as they have always done.
:namaste:

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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Mr Man »

waterchan wrote:
Too bad some Thai Forest monasteries in the UK still continue to deny full bhikkhuni ordination, flying in the face of what the Buddha did 2600 years ago.
How could they give bhikkhuni ordination?

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imagemarie
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by imagemarie »

How about flying some Bhikkhunis over from Santi Forest Monastery? :tongue:
I'd contribute dana for that!

How many nuns are needed in a quorum anyway? :hug:

:anjali:

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Mr Man
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Mr Man »

imagemarie wrote:How about flying some Bhikkhunis over from Santi Forest Monastery? :tongue:
I'd contribute dana for that!

How many nuns are needed in a quorum anyway? :hug:

:anjali:
1)But they wouldn't be of the same tradition.

2)Do the nuns at Amaravati want that?

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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by Mkoll »

Sea Turtle wrote:The Buddha's Forgotten Nuns (33:54 min)

http://www.cultureunplugged.com/documen ... otten-Nuns

Includes interview snippets with Ajahn Jayasaro, Ajahn Sujato, Ajahn Brahm, and Ajahn Succitto, among others. I found it particularly interesting to learn of Ajahn Jayasaro's position on the issue, as I had not known it previously.

:anjali:
What is Ven. Jayasaro's position? Is it different from Ven. Brahm's?
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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waterchan
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Re: Ajahn Brahms "Gender Equality and Empowerment of Women..

Post by waterchan »

Mr Man wrote:
imagemarie wrote:How about flying some Bhikkhunis over from Santi Forest Monastery? :tongue:
I'd contribute dana for that!

How many nuns are needed in a quorum anyway? :hug:

:anjali:
1)But they wouldn't be of the same tradition.

2)Do the nuns at Amaravati want that?
1) A Theravada nun is a Theravada nun. I don't believe the Vinaya rules for ordination state different rules for different traditions.

2) Why shouldn't they want that, as long as it's an ordination given in accordance with the Vinaya?
quidquid Latine dictum sit altum videtur
(Anything in Latin sounds profound.)

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