Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

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indian_buddhist
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Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by indian_buddhist »

Please deeply forgive me if this question will offend anyone. I am only a novice and trying to learn Buddhism.

I have 2 Reasons to prefer staying a Layman than ordaining as a Monk. Please correct me if I am wrong in these arguments:-

Firstly My understanding is that it is only in Human life that one can learn Buddha's teaching and attain at-least one of the last 4 stages (stream enterer, arhant etc). As far as I know this is because Human life has both Suffering and Sense pleasures which gives us an ideal opportunity to bring the Buddha's teaching of Dispassion into action. But once we become a Monk we would have lesser suffering and sensual pleasures. So will it not be more difficult to bring his teachings into play?. In Monastery there would be lesser people who will harm you and lesser opportunities to bring dispassion into action.

Secondly what I am assuming is that during Buddha's time around 500BC......Most of the people were involved in Hard Labor stuff like Farming and other jobs which ordinarily required great amounts of time and physical effort. Neither were there cars, trains, Mobile phones, Washing machines, Computers. It was practically impossible for someone who has had a hard day in fields to be expected to do meditation later. So maybe considering those times the Buddha advised to become a Monk inorder practice the Dhamma with ease. But considering Modern times where the life is not too demanding to practice the Dhamma and we could ordinarily spare 1-2 hours for Meditation per day would it not be easier to practice the Dhamma by being a Layman than a Monk?.

Please deeply sorry if I am wrong...........I am very sorry if I am wrong.

Please Note:- I am not against Monk-hood for the sake of preserving the Dhamma and spreading the Dhamma. They are indeed the treasure of Dhamma and it is due to their zealous efforts and their continous zeal that the Dhamma has survived for thousands of years and will continue to do so.
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waterchan
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by waterchan »

What I understand from the testimony of several monks, including Bhikkhu Bodhi, is that you don't choose to become a monk. Monkhood pulls you towards itself. As Bhikkhu Bodhi has written, at some point in your practice, "the allure of the saffron robes becomes irresistable".

So if you don't feel a significant compulsion to renounce lay life and take up robes, then lay life is the right place to be. It is much better to be a happy layman than a dissatisfied monk.
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Buddhistboy
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by Buddhistboy »

Dear Indian_buddhist,

As laypeople we laugh, we cry, we go for jobs, earn some money, get married, have children and watch them grow up, enjoy ourselves, travel around the world, go to the cinema, go clubbing etc etc. We are involved in this big drama which we call ‘life’.

But to wear an orange robe and to become a monk means that one has renounced those things that lay people do. The Siddhartha Bodhisattva realised his luxurious yet mundane lifestyle was a lie. That is why he withdrew into the wilderness as an ascetic to go in search of Enlightenment (Nirvana).

However to ordinate as a Buddhist priest means something more than just renunciation. Wearing an orange (or yellow or red) robe indicates that one abides by the Buddhist monastic disciplinary code. In the Pali language this is called ‘Vinaya’. It is simply a set of rules in order to make sure the appropriate discipline and quality is maintained within the clergy (Sangha). You can read about the Buddhist monastic rules in the book, The Bhikkhu’s Rules – A Guide for Laypeople by Bhikkhu Ariyeseko http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/bhkkrule.pdf just to get an idea what sort of rules are involved within the Vinaya.

So one might ask “If Enlightenment can be reached with understanding and meditation, then wouldn’t it be possible to achieve this as a layperson?” According to theory and argument one might prove this point, but practically it is not true entirely.

The Vinaya helps to develop the appropriate mental culture within a person so that one’s mind is more oriented and focussed towards achieving Enlightenment.

Let me give an analogy. In theory I could argue that I can do microbiology experiments in my own house by purchasing a microscope and using this to examine specimens. But in practice I would do experiments in a laboratory rather than in my own house. This is because the lab provides the ideal environment for the experiment to be carried with minimal bias and distraction so that more accurate results and conclusions can be obtained.

In our daily life as laypeople we have a lot of ‘background noise’ such as jobs, being involved with relations and friends, etc. which has the ability to distract one’s mind from reaching Enlightenment. Becoming a monk / priest helps to cut out or minimise this ‘background noise’ where your only commitment is Buddhism and nothing outside that (ideally). In a sermon I once heard, a monk said “the Buddhist layman travels towards Nibbana like a peacock, but the Buddhist priest travels towards Nibbana like a fast bird.” Imagine being in a car, the lay life is like being stuck in low gear whiles being a monk is like travelling at top speed.

We are both Buddhist laymans. We both have our own individual reasons why we prefer that type of lifestyle rather than joining the clergy. I personally do not have the courage to become a monk at present. I see that as my weakness rather than seeking an explanation to justify laypersonhood. It is true that human lifestyle and technology has changed over the millennia. But regardless of that, becoming a monk will take anyone a lot further in their spiritual journey than remaining a layperson.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

How much suffering anyone has depends on how much craving and attachment still remains in their psyche, not on whether the are a monk or householder, or whether they are poor or wealthy, male or female, etc.

Advantages of a Recluses Life

The Ascetic Practices

The monastic training rules are designed to put a limit on craving, and to show us where the root of suffering lies. To get free from suffering, the truth of suffering needs to be understood, and its cause needs to be abandoned. The Pātimokkha is so called because (according to Buddhaghosa), it liberates the one who guards it. If the monks do not follow the Vinaya rules, then the bondage will just get stronger.

A householder should follow a householder's discipline by observing the five precepts scrupulously, and maintaining a right livelihood. This will also lead him or her towards liberation from suffering. If anyone sees a chance to steal or to lie, for financial advantage, for example, since one cannot do that if following the five precepts, then one will have to abandon craving for the desired property.
Last edited by Bhikkhu Pesala on Thu Apr 24, 2014 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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fivebells
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by fivebells »

I'm curious: Did the Buddha ever counsel anyone against ordination?
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waterchan
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by waterchan »

fivebells wrote:I'm curious: Did the Buddha ever counsel anyone against ordination?
I think in the Vinaya there is a list of factors that prevent one from ordaining. If I remember correctly, wanted criminals and those who do not have permission from parents are not allowed to ordain.
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indian_buddhist
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by indian_buddhist »

waterchan wrote:What I understand from the testimony of several monks, including Bhikkhu Bodhi, is that you don't choose to become a monk. Monkhood pulls you towards itself. As Bhikkhu Bodhi has written, at some point in your practice, "the allure of the saffron robes becomes irresistable".

So if you don't feel a significant compulsion to renounce lay life and take up robes, then lay life is the right place to be. It is much better to be a happy layman than a dissatisfied monk.
Bikkhu Bodhi is very wise, I agree with him on this. Thanks waterchan.
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by Sokehi »

Dear Bhante, sadly both links aren't working :(
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Re: Deciding to be a Monk or Layman

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

Sokehi wrote:
Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Dear Bhante, sadly both links aren't working :(
All conditions are impermanent. Try again tomorrow.

The Domain registration was updated today, and we will have to wait for some changes to take effect.

Whenever my site is down, you can always try the mirror site: replace aimwell.org/ with softerviews.org/AIM/

http://www.softerviews.org/AIM/milinda.html
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