wonderingwanderer wrote:Hi all,
Am new here and the reason that for joining was to explore the subject of those who claim to be Arahants whilst chewing betel. Was listening to an interesting recent talk by Joseph Goldstein over on Dharma Seed where he mentions Ajahn Maha Boowa giving a talk claiming to have reached Arahant status. Found the talk on youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=508qgi_sJSs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- but was distressed to see him chewing betel. I do my best to keep the precept "To refrain from taking intoxicants that cloud the mind and cause heedlessness" - what gives with betel? Does it cause heedfulness?
Must say, very challenged. I understood that one eliminates sensual desire at non-returning.
It has taken me a few days to be able to register on this site. My burning desire to ask what other people think or know due to such a blow to my faith and confidence has been addressed by time, and by reading this thread in more detail. Glad to say that my confidence has returned.
Still, it is an interesting issue.
The habit is the problem, Maha Boowa here may actually have indeed conquered the cause of suffering, he may not have; the betel nut, or even if it was a cigarette or a bowl of pipe tobacco, alone, doesn't tell us much to this regard. Just because asavas are destroyed that doesn't mean all remnants of ones personalities and preferences are gone (the noisy crowd seemed to have displeased The Buddha but not so much Mogallana or Sariputta and they were all Arahants [Catuma Sutta]), the khandas remain, the individual still remains - just without asavas, and only upon death are the khandas completely gone.
I personally don't think it's unreasonable, let alone impossible, to imagine that he could be clean of asavas; because say in a situation where access to betel nut is not available, would he care? My guess is no. Same for when he was doing his intensive training for months on end, I don't think it was his concern whether he had betel nut or not. And just because it's in his personality to do so (chew betel), in times of leisure, I don't think that alone mean he has asavas.
Now if he was to have gone through trouble and inconvenience himself or someone else for it (i.e. if it was a habit), that would be another story, but we don't have any evidence to determine one way or another here.
The habit (subject) is the problem, I don't see how the object is.