Why do Thai monks smoke?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jun 14, 2017 5:32 am

oncereturner wrote:Nicotine is such a perfect tool of devil.
The problem is not nicotine, but craving. Many who stop smoking become addicted to sweets or something else. Patches and e-cigarettes do not begin to address the root cause, though they do have some health benefits over cigarettes.

Direct your efforts to knowing the root cause. The best way to stop smoking is the cold-turkey method. Meditate daily, and be especially mindful of the feelings that arise in your body when you get cravings for nicotine. Be mindful when smelling others' cigarette smoke.

If you meditate seriously, within about two weeks the worst of the withdrawal symptoms will be over. However, you will have to maintain mindfulness for years to completely conquer nicotine addiction.
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oncereturner
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by oncereturner » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:20 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote: Direct your efforts to knowing the root cause. The best way to stop smoking is the cold-turkey method. Meditate daily.
During the past week, my addiction reached a higher level. Now I smoke no e-cigarette, I smoke real tobacco. I never thoguht this could be happen. Yesterday I quoted "Om mani padme hum" for 2000x times. I meditated a total of six hours. I asked I willingly want to suffer in Hell for eternity, if I can't quit. Now I'm smoking again, despite everything.

What is the root cause? I started smoking when I accepted this job. I started with snuff, because I didn't want to be addicted again, as it took me a year quitting, 5 years ago, chewing nicotine gums.

In my workplace there are 10 minutes of break in every hour. After an hour, I'm so fed up with this job, I find shelter in smoking. Sometimes I miss a smoking break, and find shelter in music. I was close to quitting, but our client went mad. The workload increased to madness. Mara is vigilant, he never miss an opportunity.

I don't stop trying. I will meditate even longer, even at work.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:29 pm

oncereturner wrote:Yesterday I quoted "Om mani padme hum" for 2000x times. I meditated a total of six hours. I asked I willingly want to suffer in Hell for eternity, if I can't quit. Now I'm smoking again, despite everything.
That is not the right method. The only way is to observe your body, feelings, thoughts, and mental states. Suppression does not work; insight does.

It is easy to give up smoking. I have done it hundreds of times. :)

Seriously, though, I am talking from experience. I gave up initially after first beginning meditation. It took about a month IIRC. Then I started smoking again about thirty-five years ago when stuck in Bangkok, waiting to return to Burma. I stopped as soon as I left Bangkok, and have never smoked again since then. I have no more cravings for nicotine.
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oncereturner
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by oncereturner » Thu Jun 22, 2017 3:55 pm

I realized, I can't quit. I still smoke real cigarettes. I hope I can switch back to e-cigarette. I ordered a strong liquid with flavour. It is less worse than real cigarettes. Meditation and willpower didn't help. I will be happy if I can switch back at least. The root cause is that I have any joy in my life, except smoking.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

perkele
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by perkele » Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:50 pm

oncereturner wrote:I realized, I can't quit. I still smoke real cigarettes. I hope I can switch back to e-cigarette. I ordered a strong liquid with flavour. It is less worse than real cigarettes. Meditation and willpower didn't help. I will be happy if I can switch back at least. The root cause is that I [don't] have any joy in my life, except smoking.
I inserted a probably missing word (actually one-and-a-half) in the quote above.
But I find it hardly believable that you don't have any joys in life, except for smoking.
I have many joys in life besides smoking. But still, the addiction is so strong that I'd find it very hard to quit.
The problem is that many of the other joys, or challenges (e.g. concentrated thinking work) just don't work so well anymore when one is dizzy because of nicotine cravings.

I think electronic cigarettes are probably no better than the normal ones (or even much worse), especially for the environment, with all these little electronical devices that need to be disposed of when they die. But maybe also for your health. I think over the years more and more health risks from the chemicals in this "nicotine vapor" have been found out, carcinogenic effects etc. I believe it is healthier to kill oneself by smoking a plant than a mixture of synthetic chemicals. Better to kill oneself "naturally".

And also better without cigarette filters: Cigarette filters are quite useless.
Wikipedia wrote: .
Litter

Cigarette butts are the most common form of anthropogenic (man-made) litter in the world, as approximately 5.6 trillion cigarettes are smoked every year worldwide.[20] Of those it is estimated that 4.5 trillion cigarette butts become litter every year.[21] The cellulose acetate fibers used as the predominant filter material do not readily biodegrade because of the acetyl groups on the cellulose backbone which in itself can quickly be degraded by various microorganisms employing cellulases.[22] A normal life span of a discarded filter is thought to be up to 15 years. [23]
Just my opinion. :broke:

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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by oncereturner » Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:09 am

perkele wrote: I inserted a probably missing word (actually one-and-a-half) in the quote above.
But I find it hardly believable that you don't have any joys in life, except for smoking.
I have many joys in life besides smoking. But still, the addiction is so strong that I'd find it very hard to quit.
The problem is that many of the other joys, or challenges (e.g. concentrated thinking work) just don't work so well anymore when one is dizzy because of nicotine cravings.

I think electronic cigarettes are probably no better than the normal ones (or even much worse), especially for the environment, with all these little electronical devices that need to be disposed of when they die. But maybe also for your health. I think over the years more and more health risks from the chemicals in this "nicotine vapor" have been found out, carcinogenic effects etc. I believe it is healthier to kill oneself by smoking a plant than a mixture of synthetic chemicals. Better to kill oneself "naturally".
Thank you for correcting my sentence. I smoked e-cigarette, because it is a lot cheaper. The main killer in cigarettes is tar. This chemical can't be found in e-cigarettes. I cough and feel lung pain from vapor as well.

I smoke real cigarettes only for 3 weeks, but my dependency is already very strong.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

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oncereturner
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by oncereturner » Mon Jun 26, 2017 6:42 pm

Venerable Thanissaro Bhikkhu said:
Insight into change teaches us hope. Because change is built into the nature of things, nothing is inherently fixed, not even our own identity. No matter how bad the situation, anything is possible. We can do whatever we want to do, create whatever world we want to live in, and become whatever we want to be.
I's true. There are changes in my life, which I didn't expect. Fools are no longer in my workplace, for a long time. Our crazy custumer is gone, the workload decreased by 99%. I have the chance. Mara is about to be defeated, the table has turned. I have an arsenal of nicotine gums, e-cigs. I'm about to crush Mara, and defend my victory all my life.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:39 pm

oncereturner wrote: I asked I willingly want to suffer in Hell for eternity, if I can't quit.
You do realize that it is an absurd statement to make about a once-returner? Offtopic tho.

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oncereturner
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by oncereturner » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:14 pm

R1111 wrote:
oncereturner wrote: I asked I willingly want to suffer in Hell for eternity, if I can't quit.
You do realize that it is an absurd statement to make about a once-returner? Offtopic tho.
I realize it was an offense of discipline.

My counter shows I didn't smoke cigarettes for 2 days and 6 hours. Not spiritual ways, but medicine helped me. Strong nicotine gums and e-cig. I dont't have craving for real cigarettes any more. I crushed Mara and his army with the sword of my knowledge.

I'm still addict, but want to show good example not smoking even e-cig publically. I hope every monks and layperson will quit.
"And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech."

— SN 45.8

R1111 = rightviewftw
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by R1111 = rightviewftw » Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:36 pm

oncereturner wrote: I realize it was an offense of discipline.
i mean that a Once Returner can never go to hell. States of hell are ended with attainment of Stream Entry.

form
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by form » Thu Jun 29, 2017 8:46 pm

The strongest sensual pleasure is sex, nicotine is nothing compare to that. Being release from sensual pleasure involved numbing the sensual pleasure in the brain.

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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by denise » Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:19 pm

:shock:

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_anicca_
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Re: Why do Thai monks smoke?

Post by _anicca_ » Fri Dec 01, 2017 5:47 pm

It doesn't have much to do with sensual pleasure at all. Arahants such as Ajaan Chah, Ajaan Fuang, and Ajaan Maha Bua (he chewed betel nut) used stimulants.

This question comes from a more Western point of view where smoking is always seen as an addiction and destructive force. In Asia, there is not a major anti-smoking campaign like in Western countries, so it isn't villanized. Most of the asians I have been around smoke.

They used to use cigarettes as medicine in Thai culture.

Honestly, some of these monks are well developed in their practice, but they just don't see a reason to quit.
"A virtuous monk, Kotthita my friend, should attend in an appropriate way to the five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self."

:buddha1:

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