Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
jrl
Posts: 26
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:17 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by jrl » Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:02 pm

I was always the type that just one beer wouldn't do, I wanted more. A few years ago when I decided to start on the Buddhist path, I decided to quit drinking. It is really the best thing to do for yourself and family. I still crave alcohol, especially on these hot summer days. Through meditation I can get that relaxation that alcohol once provided

User avatar
Vanda
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:56 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Vanda » Sun Aug 09, 2015 6:43 am

The Five Precepts have been carved out over time as the basics of a layman to follow. So it depends on how seriously you wish to commit yourself.

How strongly one wishes to practice is up to the individual. Some follow the Eight Precepts. Ordination is irrelevant to the level in which you choose to practice. Layman can follow all or much of the Vinaya Pitaka, it's up to you.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya

User avatar
samseva
Posts: 2119
Joined: Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:59 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by samseva » Mon Aug 10, 2015 9:34 pm

Vanda wrote:How strongly one wishes to practice is up to the individual. Some follow the Eight Precepts. Ordination is irrelevant to the level in which you choose to practice. Layman can follow all or much of the Vinaya Pitaka, it's up to you.
It is not possible and and even unpractical (as well as very time consuming) for a lay person to follow all or most of the Vinaya Piṭaka. Examples would be rules such as going for alms, rules concerning nuns, kathina, belongings, robes, lodgings, conduct towards laymen, etc.

User avatar
waterchan
Posts: 699
Joined: Fri May 07, 2010 7:17 pm
Location: Kamaloka

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by waterchan » Mon Aug 10, 2015 10:14 pm

There is some evidence that the fifth precept was not part of the original precepts, as it is not listed in a number of suttas. Indeed, according to one of the origin stories in the Vinaya, the precept was added later... by the Buddha. So a practising Buddhist should take it just as seriously as the other four precepts.

I'm not sure why the Buddha did not teach five precepts from the very get-go. Maybe in the Buddha's time and place, recreational drinking wasn't as common as it is today.

Maybe you'll find that the more your meditate, the deeper the experience of samadhi achieved, the mind naturally inclines away from alcohol because it wants to remain with that stillness.

User avatar
Dhammanando
Posts: 4155
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 10:44 pm
Location: Ban Sri Pradu Rubber Forest, Phrao, Chiangmai

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Dhammanando » Tue Aug 11, 2015 12:51 am

waterchan wrote:There is some evidence that the fifth precept was not part of the original precepts, as it is not listed in a number of suttas.
I don't think there is any evidence for this. Those who make this claim usually cite the absence of any mention of taking intoxicants in the context of the ten akusala kammapathas or the micchā-kammanta of the wrong eightfold path. But this can be accounted for by the fact that these lists are concerned with actions that are intrinsically akusala kammas. Taking alcohol is not so; indeed it is an action that is permitted and non-transgressive (even for bhikkhus) when the alcohol is a component in some medicine that is essential to one's health.

waterchan wrote:Indeed, according to one of the origin stories in the Vinaya, the precept was added later... by the Buddha.
The Vinaya doesn't say anything about when the fifth precept for householders was first taught. It reports only the occasion when this training rule was laid down for bhikkhus. It would be true to say that this training rule didn't exist from the very beginning, but only trivially true for the same applies to all the Vinaya training rules — each one was established in the aftermath of some errant bhikkhu performing the action in question.

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:56 am

:focus:
Please note I have started a new topic.

Can lay people follow the Vinaya rules?


http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Vanda
Posts: 261
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 7:56 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Vanda » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:13 am

To keep a clear mind is important. Why is alcohol so important to have?
Last edited by Vanda on Sun Aug 23, 2015 6:20 am, edited 2 times in total.
“Don’t go by reports, by legends, by traditions, by scripture, by logical conjecture, by inference, by analogies, by agreement through pondering views, by probability, or by the thought, ‘This contemplative is our teacher.’ When you know for yourselves that, ‘These qualities are skillful; these qualities are blameless; these qualities are praised by the wise; these qualities, when adopted and carried out, lead to welfare and to happiness’ — then you should enter and remain in them.”
- Kalama Sutta, Anguttara Nikaya

User avatar
Ben
Posts: 18442
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:49 am
Location: kanamaluka

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Ben » Tue Aug 11, 2015 2:16 am

Please keep this thread on topic.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:55 pm

"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

rodnas
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:07 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by rodnas » Wed Aug 10, 2016 12:44 pm

If someone reach enlightenment then no amount of alcohol changes his behavior, as drink only effects the ego, not the true self.
Some spiritual schools use alcohol in moderately doses in order to reach a mental state, but it's surely has no real positive effect on an average drinker.
Alcohol, just like drugs create an inbalance in the mind which firstly comes as feeling good and hyper then it brings down the experiencer to even a mentally deeper level.

justindesilva
Posts: 798
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:38 pm

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by justindesilva » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:01 pm

Reading through Dammika Sutra I noticed that Lord Buddha advised his followers to abstain from liquor for one's own good in order to keep the senses clean and clear
Intoxicant s however reacts in the brain to disharmonise the senses of any person is a fact medically proved.
Whether shown by budda or not what is bad is bad.

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6438
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Mkoll » Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:33 pm

SarathW wrote:"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?
Hi Sarath,

For your first question, the meaning is not consuming meat or alcohol.

For your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.

:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:35 pm

[quoteFor your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.][/quote]
Thanks James.
Can you give bit more information please.
Should a monk accept alcohol if someone offer him?
:thinking:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

User avatar
Mkoll
Posts: 6438
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:55 pm
Location: California

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Mkoll » Wed Aug 10, 2016 9:46 pm

Hi Sarath,

By context, I mean that the information is provided in the introduction to the sutta,
The description of the first individual enables the reader to understand, to some extent, the austerities of those addicted to self-mortification.
, as well as the sutta itself.
“And which individual, O bhikkhus, is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

[...]

he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."
:anjali:
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

SarathW
Posts: 9996
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Wed Aug 10, 2016 10:07 pm

So I read it as not drinks spirituous liquor is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?
:shrug:
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: cappuccino, JamesTheGiant and 99 guests