Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

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Bakmoon
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Bakmoon » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:36 pm

I've personally always understood there to be two reasons for the fifth precept. First, intoxicants obviously affect the mind which lead to wrong behavior and interfere with spiritual practice. But there is another aspect to it I think that isn't as obvious. Many people say 'well I'm not taking enough to lead to wrong behavior or destroy my practice' but the fact of the matter is that they are taking alcohol for the purpose of feeling its effects, and those effects are mind altering. That's the reason people drink, not usually because they really like the taste, but because they enjoy the effect, even if it is relatively small.

To me it seems that it is this intention to disrupt the mind is rooted in very strong delusion that clarity and understanding don't matter and pure pleasure divorced from clarity and understanding does matter. Because kamma is intention at its root, the effect is bad. That's just how I've personally understood it.
The non-doing of any evil,
The performance of what's skillful,
The cleansing of one's own mind:
This is the Buddhas' teaching.

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phil
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by phil » Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Also don't forget that the Buddha said that when we follow the precepts we provide protection to immeasurable beings. Our abstinence may be support for someone else's, just as going along with drinking in a situation drives others deeper into their habit, with untold consequences for countless beings as that sort of conditioning ripples out in either a wholesome or unwholesome way.
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(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

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lyndon taylor
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by lyndon taylor » Tue Sep 23, 2014 9:59 pm

Some excellent comments, stay sober!! It's the mature thing to do.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

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SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:39 am

I am reading the book of Ajhan Amaro, "Small boat. Great mountain"
I agree with him except the highlighted phrases.


PS: It is a great book to read.

============

P154:

The Fifth Precept It’s interesting that when the Buddha describes the moral pre- cepts, he often doesn’t actually mention the fifth one. The Buddha did not always label the precept against using intoxicants as intrinsically moral. When I say this, some people perk up and get very interested! The point, though, is that when the mind isin a heedless state, it is much easier to fall headlong into the first four danger zones than it is when the mind is attentive, balanced, and undrugged. To continue the driving analogy: just consider the number of accidents caused by people under the influence of drink and other intoxicants. So it may be that we wouldn’t experience the inescapable negative karmic result that we would, say, when telling a deliberate lie, but the precept against using intoxicants is included in the five because it’s a linchpin for all the others—when it goes, the wheels start to wobble.
For myself, I like to encourage the understanding of the fifth precept—“I undertake the precept to refrain from consuming in- toxicating drink and drugs which lead to carelessness”—to be a refraining from consuming the substances at all, not just a refrain- ing from intoxication. It’s a favorite idea, isn’t it, to think, “Just to have a beer now and then, or a glass of wine with dinner, that’s not against the precepts, is it?” Quite, honestly, I’d say that it is. To have the standard of abstinence is a great kindness to your- self and a kindness to other people by the example that you set. I’m not asking people to be rigid or fanatical about it, but it can be extremely helpful for ourselves to make a clear commitment.
It is like saying, “Mindfulness is a precious and fragile commodi- ty, why endanger or weaken it?” So, personally, I try to encourage a strict observance of the precepts, including that of refraining from intoxicants. This is out of no reason other than my love for you and all other beings. You will find it is the most helpful sup- port to all dimensions of Buddhist practice to respect the pre- cepts in this way.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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clw_uk
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by clw_uk » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:13 am

SarathW wrote:I am reading the book of Ajhan Amaro, "Small boat. Great mountain"
I agree with him except the highlighted phrases.


PS: It is a great book to read.

============

P154:

The Fifth Precept It’s interesting that when the Buddha describes the moral pre- cepts, he often doesn’t actually mention the fifth one. The Buddha did not always label the precept against using intoxicants as intrinsically moral. When I say this, some people perk up and get very interested! The point, though, is that when the mind isin a heedless state, it is much easier to fall headlong into the first four danger zones than it is when the mind is attentive, balanced, and undrugged. To continue the driving analogy: just consider the number of accidents caused by people under the influence of drink and other intoxicants. So it may be that we wouldn’t experience the inescapable negative karmic result that we would, say, when telling a deliberate lie, but the precept against using intoxicants is included in the five because it’s a linchpin for all the others—when it goes, the wheels start to wobble.
For myself, I like to encourage the understanding of the fifth precept—“I undertake the precept to refrain from consuming in- toxicating drink and drugs which lead to carelessness”—to be a refraining from consuming the substances at all, not just a refrain- ing from intoxication. It’s a favorite idea, isn’t it, to think, “Just to have a beer now and then, or a glass of wine with dinner, that’s not against the precepts, is it?” Quite, honestly, I’d say that it is. To have the standard of abstinence is a great kindness to your- self and a kindness to other people by the example that you set. I’m not asking people to be rigid or fanatical about it, but it can be extremely helpful for ourselves to make a clear commitment.
It is like saying, “Mindfulness is a precious and fragile commodi- ty, why endanger or weaken it?” So, personally, I try to encourage a strict observance of the precepts, including that of refraining from intoxicants. This is out of no reason other than my love for you and all other beings. You will find it is the most helpful sup- port to all dimensions of Buddhist practice to respect the pre- cepts in this way.

Makes sense to me :goodpost:
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Dinsdale » Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:27 am

phil wrote: Our abstinence may be support for someone else's, just as going along with drinking in a situation drives others deeper into their habit..
Good point. I've been on both sides of that equation at different times.
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SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:36 pm

Another Sutta support:

"Well, the Blessed One teaches the Dhamma to establish abstention from killing, from stealing, from sexual misconduct, from false speech, and from liquor that causes intoxication and negligence. To them such teaching is unpleasant and unpalatable."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .piya.html
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:07 am

What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.
======

There is the case where someone is a cloth-less[1] ascetic, rejecting conventions, licking his hands, not coming when asked, not staying when asked. He doesn't consent to food brought to him or food dedicated to him or to an invitation to a meal. He accepts nothing from the mouth of a pot or from the mouth of a bowl. He accepts nothing from across a stick, across a pestle, from two eating together, from a pregnant woman, from a nursing woman, from a woman lying with a man, from a food collection, from where a dog is waiting or flies are buzzing. He takes no fish or meat. He drinks no liquor, wine, or fermented drink. He limits himself to one house & one morsel a day, or two houses & two morsels... seven houses & seven morsels. He lives on one saucerful a day, two... seven saucerfuls a day. He takes food once a day, once every two days... once every seven days, and so on up to a fortnight, devoted to regulating his intake of food. He is an eater of greens, millet, wild rice, hide-parings, moss, rice bran, rice-scum, sesame flour, grass, or cow dung. He lives on forest roots & berries. He feeds on fallen fruits. He wears hemp, canvas, shrouds, refuse rags, tree bark, antelope hide, strips of antelope hide, kusa-grass garments, bark garments, wood-shaving garments, head-hair garments, animal wool, owl's wings. He is a hair-&-beard puller, one devoted to the practice of pulling out his hair & beard. He is a stander, one who rejects seats. He is a hands-around-the-knees sitter, one devoted to the exertion of sitting with his hands around his knees. He is a spike-mattresser, one who makes his bed on a bed of spikes. He is a third-time-in-the-evening bather, one who stays devoted to the practice of bathing in water. Thus in a variety of ways he stays devoted to the practice of tormenting & afflicting the body. With the break-up of the body, after death, he goes to a bad bourn, destitution, the realm of the hungry shades, hell

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:36 am

SarathW wrote:What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.
The point is, I think, that abstaining from fish, meat, and alcohol do not make one's mind pure if one's view is still wrong. The point is made abundantly clear in the Āmagandha Sutta.
Abstaining from fish and meat, nakedness, shaving of the head, matted hair, smearing with ashes, wearing rough deerskins, attending the sacrificial fire; none of the various penances in the world performed for unhealthy ends, neither incantations, oblations, sacrifices nor seasonal observances, purify a person who has not overcome his doubts.
There are some who abstain from fish and meat (or alcohol) for their own benefit, and there are others who do so while looking down on, and finding fault with those who do not abstain from those things. The naked ascetics referred to in your quote were full of spiritual pride, and they condemned the Buddha's followers for eating meat and fish, (among other things).

It is spiritual pride and wrong views that send people to a bad destination after death, not eating meat or fish.
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by A fool from HK » Tue Jan 06, 2015 12:13 pm

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
SarathW wrote:What is the meaning of the highlighted statement.

It is spiritual pride and wrong views that send people to a bad destination after death, not eating meat or fish.
Dear Bhante,

What should we do to overcome spiritual pride and other kinds of pride?
I am very humble person, always lack of confidence. So whenever I have some achievement I will feel pride.

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:12 pm

Pride is one of the last defilements to go. It's only natural to feel satisfied after achieving a goal that one has been striving to achieve for a long time, but don't ever lose your mindfulness.

Mindfulness of the mental process is difficult, so lay emphasis on establishing mindfulness on the body and feelings. The more that you watch the feelings of elation, the less prone you will be to becoming proud.

Gain, Praise, and Fame are dangerous — they were the cause of Devadatta's downfall.
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SarathW
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by SarathW » Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:58 pm

Thank you Bhante.
This is some examples, how to control pride (Mana)

-If I am the fastest runner I think about the other world record holders.
- Pride come when you compare yourself to others. So I think about higher achievement of others. Other person may be able to jump longer.
- I think about the impermanence of my achievement. When I get old I won't be that fast.
- Generally think about the impermanence , Stress (Dukkha) and Anatta
- Extend (Brahama Vihara) towards others.
- Think about your final goal (Nibbana)
:)
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by A fool from HK » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:48 am

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:Pride is one of the last defilements to go. It's only natural to feel satisfied after achieving a goal that one has been striving to achieve for a long time, but don't ever lose your mindfulness.

Mindfulness of the mental process is difficult, so lay emphasis on establishing mindfulness on the body and feelings. The more that you watch the feelings of elation, the less prone you will be to becoming proud.

Gain, Praise, and Fame are dangerous — they were the cause of Devadatta's downfall.
Thanks Bhante!
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hermitwin
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by hermitwin » Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:29 am

to quote ajahn brahm,
' people always ask me , what's wrong with a small glass of wine/beer.
so i tell them what's wrong with a little bit of killing, stealing, lying and adultery?'

in case you didnt know , the myth that red wine is good for health has been debuhnked,

Red Wine Not That Healthy After All, Study Shows | TIME

http://time.com/97878/red-wine-healthy-study/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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clw_uk
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Re: Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

Post by clw_uk » Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:14 am

hermitwin wrote:to quote ajahn brahm,
' people always ask me , what's wrong with a small glass of wine/beer.
so i tell them what's wrong with a little bit of killing, stealing, lying and adultery?'

in case you didnt know , the myth that red wine is good for health has been debuhnked,

Red Wine Not That Healthy After All, Study Shows | TIME

http://time.com/97878/red-wine-healthy-study/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Hmm, I don't think having a glass of wine can be equated with murder.
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