Did Buddha say drinking Alcohol is bad?

[jrl]

I was always the type that just one beer wouldn't do, I wanted more. A few years ago when I decided to start on the Buddhist path, I decided to quit drinking. It is really the best thing to do for yourself and family. I still crave alcohol, especially on these hot summer days. Through meditation I can get that relaxation that alcohol once provided

[Vanda]

The Five Precepts have been carved out over time as the basics of a layman to follow. So it depends on how seriously you wish to commit yourself.

How strongly one wishes to practice is up to the individual. Some follow the Eight Precepts. Ordination is irrelevant to the level in which you choose to practice. Layman can follow all or much of the Vinaya Pitaka, it's up to you.

[samseva]

How strongly one wishes to practice is up to the individual. Some follow the Eight Precepts. Ordination is irrelevant to the level in which you choose to practice. Layman can follow all or much of the Vinaya Pitaka, it's up to you.

It is not possible and and even unpractical (as well as very time consuming) for a lay person to follow all or most of the Vinaya Piṭaka. Examples would be rules such as going for alms, rules concerning nuns, kathina, belongings, robes, lodgings, conduct towards laymen, etc.

[waterchan]

There is some evidence that the fifth precept was not part of the original precepts, as it is not listed in a number of suttas. Indeed, according to one of the origin stories in the Vinaya, the precept was added later... by the Buddha. So a practising Buddhist should take it just as seriously as the other four precepts.

I'm not sure why the Buddha did not teach five precepts from the very get-go. Maybe in the Buddha's time and place, recreational drinking wasn't as common as it is today.

Maybe you'll find that the more your meditate, the deeper the experience of samadhi achieved, the mind naturally inclines away from alcohol because it wants to remain with that stillness.

[Dhammanando]

There is some evidence that the fifth precept was not part of the original precepts, as it is not listed in a number of suttas.

I don't think there is any evidence for this. Those who make this claim usually cite the absence of any mention of taking intoxicants in the context of the ten akusala kammapathas or the micchā-kammanta of the wrong eightfold path. But this can be accounted for by the fact that these lists are concerned with actions that are intrinsically akusala kammas. Taking alcohol is not so; indeed it is an action that is permitted and non-transgressive (even for bhikkhus) when the alcohol is a component in some medicine that is essential to one's health.

Indeed, according to one of the origin stories in the Vinaya, the precept was added later... by the Buddha.

The Vinaya doesn't say anything about when the fifth precept for householders was first taught. It reports only the occasion when this training rule was laid down for bhikkhus. It would be true to say that this training rule didn't exist from the very beginning, but only trivially true for the same applies to all the Vinaya training rules — each one was established in the aftermath of some errant bhikkhu performing the action in question.

[SarathW]

Please note I have started a new topic.

Can lay people follow the Vinaya rules?


http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=24430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Vanda]

To keep a clear mind is important. Why is alcohol so important to have?

[Ben]

Please keep this thread on topic.

[SarathW]

"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?

[rodnas]

If someone reach enlightenment then no amount of alcohol changes his behavior, as drink only effects the ego, not the true self.
Some spiritual schools use alcohol in moderately doses in order to reach a mental state, but it's surely has no real positive effect on an average drinker.
Alcohol, just like drugs create an inbalance in the mind which firstly comes as feeling good and hyper then it brings down the experiencer to even a mentally deeper level.

[justindesilva]

Reading through Dammika Sutra I noticed that Lord Buddha advised his followers to abstain from liquor for one's own good in order to keep the senses clean and clear
Intoxicant s however reacts in the brain to disharmonise the senses of any person is a fact medically proved.
Whether shown by budda or not what is bad is bad.

[Mkoll]

"Here, O bhikkhus, a certain individual is naked, devoid of social habits, [12] licks his hands [after eating], [13] does not accept alms if called or requested to wait, [14] and neither accepts food brought to him, nor specially prepared for him, nor an invitation [to dine]. Neither does he accept from the brim of a pot, or from the brim of a cooking vessel; [15] nor anything handed across a threshold, over a stick, or over a rice pounder; [16] not from two people eating together, [17] nor from a woman with child; [18] nor from one giving suck, [19] nor from one indulging in courtship with a man. [20] Nor does he accept food that has been collected from others, [21] nor from where a dog is waiting for food, [22] nor from where swarms of flies are buzzing round; [23] he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh079-u.html

What is the meaning of the highlighted phrase?
Does this mean it is ok to consume alcohol?

Hi Sarath,

For your first question, the meaning is not consuming meat or alcohol.

For your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.

[SarathW]

[quoteFor your second question, the context of the quote you gave provides the answer.][/quote]
Thanks James.
Can you give bit more information please.
Should a monk accept alcohol if someone offer him?

[Mkoll]

Hi Sarath,

By context, I mean that the information is provided in the introduction to the sutta,

The description of the first individual enables the reader to understand, to some extent, the austerities of those addicted to self-mortification.

, as well as the sutta itself.

“And which individual, O bhikkhus, is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?

[...]

he neither eats fish nor flesh, nor drinks spirituous liquor, arrack, nor fermented rice."

[SarathW]

So I read it as not drinks spirituous liquor is a tormentor of self, is addicted to the practice of self-torment?