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Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:31 am
by robertk
The black magic beliefs crack me up. I remember a woman in bangkok who told me never to show my passport to a Thai woman - as she might take the information to a witch doctor who would use it to make an irresistible love spell.

I told her vipassana was stronger than magic but she looked doubtful.. :lol:

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:38 am
by hermitwin
Here is my take.
It is a prerogative of a monk to disrobe.
However, why not just tell the truth.
For example, I fell in love with a woman
and I want to marry her.
To say that it is a previous life connection is probably true.
But the Buddha said we had countless spouses in our previous lives.
So, not a very good reason.

The whole teaching of Buddha is how to leave samsara.
For someone to spend a lifetime as a monk and then get
married, all I wish for is the truth.
Dont give excuses.
Everyone has the right to live their life the way they like.
Just Spare me the b***sh*t.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:14 pm
by Hickersonia
I honestly hope they are very happy together and experience as little stress as possible in their marriage. Perhaps they both might yet put an end to suffering in this life? Who knows? :anjali:

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:04 am
by manas
Hickersonia wrote:I honestly hope they are very happy together and experience as little stress as possible in their marriage. Perhaps they both might yet put an end to suffering in this life? Who knows? :anjali:
If a husband and wife were both practicing, and supported each other in the practice, they could both benefit. It's complicated and has it's challenges, but I don't see romantic love as the big scary bogeyman it is often made out to be, anymore. It could be that, some folks are better of in a relationship, than alone - even for the cultivation of the practice. Which is better: sitting in a monastery thinking about women all day while you are trying to meditate, or, getting married and being with a woman, then meditating so you can have a break from her? Out of these two alternatives, I would choose the latter. (I'm not implying that the Venerable Ajahn had to make this choice, however.)

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:10 am
by chownah
Maybe he just didn't want to continue with his life at the temple.....perhaps he was no longer inspired by it......perhaps he felt that he was no longer having a beneficial impact there, like a musician who no longer writes music......maybe the couple are just compatible in life style and there is no sensual component at all.

Has anyone here ever retired from their career? Has anyone here ever changed careers?
chownah

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:47 am
by PeterB
If I might be permitted to stick my puzzled nose in.
Why is it anyone's business apart from this gentleman and his wife ? :smile:

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:43 pm
by Sokehi
Isn't it a bit like with the laities need for amusement in celebreties, for drama, for who is falling in love with whom. As found with Royals, Moviestars and Popmusicians?

I don't think it's anyones business. To argue he might have broken his precepts befor disrobing, with argueing the woman might be the villain... none of our business and everyone should think much more about ones own conduct. He disrobed, he married her. End of story.

May they be well.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:40 pm
by hermitwin
As a monk, you enter into a contract with the
people who support you.
A monk is a teacher, a role model and an inspirational figure.
To say that a monk who disrobes and marries the woman he loves
is just a career change or he does not owe an explanation to
his supporters means that you do not understand the role
a monk plays in his community and the unique nature of
the relationship between a monk and his followers.
Quite different from Anne Heche declaring she was gay
and then not gay, and went on to marry a man.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:53 pm
by purple planet
I think a monk should act like a monk when his a monk and he can leave that whenever he likes - but someone like him who is a well known monk who thought the dhamma - it does seem a bit not ok

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:48 am
by robertk
hermitwin wrote:As a monk, you enter into a contract with the
people who support you.
A monk is a teacher, a role model and an inspirational figure.
To say that a monk who disrobes and marries the woman he loves
is just a career change or he does not owe an explanation to
his supporters means that you do not understand the role
a monk plays in his community and the unique nature of
the relationship between a monk and his followers.
Quite different from Anne Heche declaring she was gay
and then not gay, and went on to marry a man.
Do you have the vinaya reference indicating that a monk has to explain to his supporters the reasons for his disrobing?

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 7:07 am
by tiltbillings
Why he disrobed is none of our damned business.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:43 am
by Sekha
If people think that monks they donate to should be accountable to them for what they do, they have not understood what generosity means in the teaching of the Buddha.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 11:55 am
by Mr Man
forestmat wrote:Maybe to 'clear' his/her name, two books are due out next week in Thailand

"Mitsuo Shibahashi, formerly known as Phra Mitsuo Gavesako, will launch two new books that promise to tell all about why he left the monkhood after almost 40 years to pursue a married life."

http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/3 ... es-memoirs
As per forestmat's early post Mitsuo Shibahashi is apparently providing an explanation. So possibly he feels it is needed.

For those who are close to or who had faith in a teacher, wanting some kind of an explanation seems fairly reasonable when the teacher takes a seemingly dramatic change in direction.

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:51 pm
by Sekha
Actions tell more than words. He can write 100 books, it won't change the facts.

Besides, the Buddha warned us against relying excessively on someone:
Furthermore, bhikkhus, that person in which an individual has confidence has forsaken the order. He thinks thus: 'This person who is dear and charming to us has forsaken the order'. He does not keep companionship with other fellow bhikkhus. Not keeping companionship with other bhikkhus, he doesn't hear the proper Dhamma. Not hearing the proper Dhamma, he falls away from the proper Dhamma. This, bhikkhus, is the fourth danger of placing confidence in an individual.
http://www.buddha-vacana.org/sutta/angu ... 5-250.html
This is easily translatable for lay people

Re: Phra Ajahn Mitsuo Gavesako leave the Buddhist monkhood?

Posted: Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:19 pm
by robertk
perfect quote