Udana 8.1 + others and Nibbana
Posted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:11 pm
I have been doing some thinking about Nibbana, and I have a question to those who see Nibbana as merely a designation for the destruction of Greed, Aversion and Delusion.
How do you understand references in the Pali Canon like Udana 8.1?
There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished,[1] unevolving, without support [mental object].[2] This, just this, is the end of stress.
Udana 8.1 (Thanissaro)
What about AN 3.32, Ud. 8.3, Ud 1.10, and I'm sure others that people more well-versed in sutta could find?
They seem to represent Nibbana as a "realm" or at least "where" samsaric existance comes to an end. Like the cessassion of consciousness attainment and not like the fully aware state that I have read from those on this forum that support the non-classical teaching (Nana for instance). Hopefully I don't misunderstand the former position, but this seems to me to be support for Classical Theravada teachings on Nibbana.
That said, how can consciousness take hold of an object that isn't an object at all?
Looking forward to any thoughts or opinions from anyone.
How do you understand references in the Pali Canon like Udana 8.1?
There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished,[1] unevolving, without support [mental object].[2] This, just this, is the end of stress.
Udana 8.1 (Thanissaro)
What about AN 3.32, Ud. 8.3, Ud 1.10, and I'm sure others that people more well-versed in sutta could find?
They seem to represent Nibbana as a "realm" or at least "where" samsaric existance comes to an end. Like the cessassion of consciousness attainment and not like the fully aware state that I have read from those on this forum that support the non-classical teaching (Nana for instance). Hopefully I don't misunderstand the former position, but this seems to me to be support for Classical Theravada teachings on Nibbana.
That said, how can consciousness take hold of an object that isn't an object at all?
Looking forward to any thoughts or opinions from anyone.