Levels of accomplishment?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ngawang Drolma.
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Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:50 pm

In Mahayana there are bhumis, or levels of attainment. In Theravada is there any such system?

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Drolma

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retrofuturist
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:58 pm

Greetings Drolma,

The Noble Ones are categorised as follows...

Arahant - final destruction of ignorance, no more becoming
Non-Returner - a trace of craving results in becoming, but never again to the human realm
Once-Returner - born once more, before attaining arahantship
Stream-Entrant - maximum of 7 lifetimes to go but the destination is assured

Somewhere, venerable Dhammanando has an excellent table that shows what fetters are eradicated at each stage. Hopefully he sees this thread and can provide you a link to it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:26 pm

Thank you Retro :)

I couldn't help but notice that full buddhahood was missing from the list...

How is it different from an Arahant? Is the difference that a Buddha will teach?

Thanks,
Drolma

Element

Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Element » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:36 pm

There are many distinctions & synonym in Theravada regarding these two words.

However, generally Buddha is self-enlightened with no teacher whilst an arahant is help-enlightened because they are guided by the Buddha's teaching.

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by retrofuturist » Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:39 pm

Greetings Drolma,

In the fourfold scheme of the Noble Sangha (eightfold if you wish to distinguish between bhikkhus and bhikkunis)... the Buddha is classified alongside the arahants. He is often referred to as "The Arahant". What is true of the arahant is true of the Buddha... it just happens also to be that the Buddha both created a dispensation, and had developed his faculties far beyond the minimal level required for the cessation of suffering.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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kc2dpt
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by kc2dpt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:45 am

sotapanna eradicates:
self-identification views (sakkaya-ditthi)
uncertainty (vicikiccha)
grasping at precepts and practices (silabbata-paramasa)

sakadagami eradicates those three and significantly weakens:
sensual passion (kama-raga)
resistance (vyapada)

anagami eradicates those five

arahant eradicates those five plus eradicates:
passion for form (rupa-raga)
passion for formless phenomena (arupa-raga)
conceit (mana)
restlessness (uddhacca)
unawareness (avijja)

Those are the ten fetters (samyojana) which bind one to the cycle of birth and death.
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by thecap » Thu Jan 08, 2009 1:12 am

Hi Peter

Thank you for the list.

resistance (vyapada) ... google says vyapada is ill-will/hatred.

But what about having resistance like Gandhi against someone who has ill-will/hatred?

"Vive la Résistance!" ;)

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by kc2dpt » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:47 am

What about it?
- Peter

Be heedful and you will accomplish your goal.

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 4:51 am

Greetings,

It seems as if vyapada is more commonly associated with ill-will per se.
Vyāpāda

Vyāpāda [fr. vyāpajjati. See also byāpāda] making bad, doing harm: desire to injure, malevolence, ill -- will D i.71, 246; iii.70 sq., 226, 234; S i.99; ii.151; iv.343; A i.194, 280; ii.14, 210; iii.92, 231, 245; iv.437; Vbh 86, 363 sq., 391; Pug 17 sq.; Dhs 1137; Vism 7; DA i.211; VbhA 74, 118, 369. ˚anusaya M i.433. ˚dosa M iii.3. ˚dhātu M iii.62. ˚nīvaraṇa M ii.203. See under each affix. -- Cp. avyāpāda.
Source: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philol ... li.1427689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:22 am

Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:Somewhere, venerable Dhammanando has an excellent table that shows what fetters are eradicated at each stage. Hopefully he sees this thread and can provide you a link to it.
I don't have a link to the E-sangha thread where I posted it, so I'll upload it here. It presents the elimination of defilements according to the Abhidhamma.
Eradication.jpg
Eradication.jpg (126.91 KiB) Viewed 3983 times
Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 5:36 am

Greetings venerable Dhammanando,

Do you know where the explanation for the eradication of "envy" and "avarice" as a component of stream-entry originates?

I expected to see Doubt and Wrong View in the list, but am more familiar with Silabbatupadana (attachment to rites and rituals) appearing as the third feature of stream-entry.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Dhammanando
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Dhammanando » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:16 am

Hi Retro,
retrofuturist wrote:Do you know where the explanation for the eradication of "envy" and "avarice" as a component of stream-entry originates?
The extended list of fetters is from the Dhammasaṅgaṇī and Cullaniddesa, and the account of when each is eliminated is from the commentaries to the same (Atthasālinī 376-7, = Expositor II. 483; Saddhammappajjotikā 140). It's also given in the commentary to the Vatthūpama Sutta (MN. 7), which has an even longer list of kilesa (perhaps the longest of all) and when each is eliminated.
I expected to see Doubt and Wrong View in the list, but am more familiar with Silabbatupadana (attachment to rites and rituals) appearing as the third feature of stream-entry.
"Misapprehension of precepts and vows" (as I prefer to translate it) is included in the fetter of wrong view.

Best wishes,
Dhammanando Bhikkhu

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by gavesako » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:23 am

Drolma wrote:Thank you Retro :)

I couldn't help but notice that full buddhahood was missing from the list...

How is it different from an Arahant? Is the difference that a Buddha will teach?
For a good explanation, see
Arahants, Buddhas, and Bodhisattvas by Bhikkhu Bodhi

http://www.buddhanet.net/budsas/ebud/ebdha335.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

Access to Insight - Theravada texts
Ancient Buddhist Texts - Translations and history of Pali texts
Dhammatalks.org - Sutta translations

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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by retrofuturist » Thu Jan 08, 2009 7:28 am

Thank you venerable Dhammanando.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"One discerns wrong view as wrong view, and right view as right view. This is one's right view." (MN 117)

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Ngawang Drolma.
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Re: Levels of accomplishment?

Post by Ngawang Drolma. » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:51 pm

Thank you :namaste:

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